ODD & Unusual NOZZLES

X Chief 1

Firefighter
Re: ODD / Unusal NOZZLES

In my twenty-five years in the fire service and approximately twelve years teaching fire schools for the state of Ohio, I have seen only one such nozzle and I can't recall now where it was. If a booster line is used correctly, it only needs a straight stream; they are for overhauling and not for attack.
X Chief 1
 

MATT3045

Lieutenant
Re: ODD / Unusal NOZZLES

My department has, unless we replaced them in the last couple months, 2 of these type nozzles we keep on our wildland hose. I do not go back until Friday, unless we have a call back. I will look and see if we still do, for some reason though I want to say we got new nozzles for the wildland bags.
 

MFDPhoto1

USAF-SAC/Vet.
Re: ODD / Unusal NOZZLES

In my twenty-five years in the fire service and approximately twelve years teaching fire schools for the state of Ohio, I have seen only one such nozzle and I can't recall now where it was. If a booster line is used correctly, it only needs a straight stream; they are for overhauling and not for attack.
X Chief 1
Thanks for the input, and ironically...THIS "NOZL" was on a N. Ohio 'early '50's eng. ;-)

Not to be argumentative, but the records show that many, many, many fires have been extinguished with 'booster-lines' over the years, and with only a 2-man eng. company at that. I've heard that 'their' use today has been a subject of controversy for some depts., but keep in mind a 'booster-line' is a tool and extension of the tried 'n true (so-called) chemical engs. of yesteryear. Nothing more than a very small tank mounted on a wagon (later small engs.) with bicarb./soda in the tank, and a small amt. of sulfuric-acid induced to charge the tank for pressure into a 'booster-line' when called for.

I recall on a kitchen fire for example, they would smash out a window with the nozzle (of a booster-line)...stick the hose into the opening, open the nozzle using the fog setting, and the fire darkening down almost instantly...all safely from the outside, then making entry via a door to finish it off.

I agree you wouldn't want to make entry to a fully involved structure with a booster-line, but I know for sure that the boosters limited much water damage on residential fires, which many times causes more extensive/expensive damage than the actual fire.

I wish everyone an uneventful, safe 2013
 

magicitybill

Lieutenant
Re: ODD / Unusal NOZZLES

I agree! Sizeup and good judgement are everything, but I have put out a lot of fires with a booster. If it is not enough though do not try to make it work!
 

FAO25

Captain
Re: ODD / Unusal NOZZLES


Which causes more water damage, a booster flowing 10 gpm for 10 minutes or a 1 3/4" line flowing 100 gpm for 30 seconds?
Water damage stops when you close the bail.
Fire damage stops when the fire is extinguished.

Why is it wrong to have a 500+ gallon water tank feeding a 10 gpm booster line but okay to take a 2 1/2 gallon water extinguisher in to fight a fire?


If you have to take the tool off the apparatus because people don't know when to use it the problem is not with the tool.
 

GA_Dave

Assistant Chief
Re: ODD / Unusal NOZZLES

FAO25 said:
Which causes more water damage, a booster flowing 10 gpm for 10 minutes or a 1 3/4" line flowing 100 gpm for 30 seconds?
Water damage stops when you close the bail.
Fire damage stops when the fire is extinguished.

Why is it wrong to have a 500+ gallon water tank feeding a 10 gpm booster line but okay to take a 2 1/2 gallon water extinguisher in to fight a fire?


If you have to take the tool off the apparatus because people don't know when to use it the problem is not with the tool.
AMEN!!!
 

X Chief 1

Firefighter
Re: ODD / Unusal NOZZLES

There is always an exception to the "rule". Far too many departments (volunteer) get into a HABIT of attacking fires with a booster line.
Of course there are times when the booster is the line of choice. Just remember it was never intended as an attack line. Never send a boy to do a man's job. We took all of our booster lines off the rigs and re-plumbed them to 1 1/2". Do what you think is right - - training is the answer here.
X Chief 1
 

FAO25

Captain
Re: ODD / Unusal NOZZLES

Respectfully, I disagree. The Booster line was intended as an "Initial Attack" line. The Booster replaced the Chemical Lines of the the first "Mini-Pumpers" the Chemical Companies. Remember that in that era most engine companies were two piece, running a pumper and a hose wagon. Some, but not all, hose wagons carried one or more chemical tanks for initial attack. In fact, a review of the first N.B.F.U. standards required a minimum of two chemical tank equipped companies to be in the first alarm assignment. In the steam era it would take time to get pressure up for pumping so, many times the initial fire attack was a chemical line backed up by a 2 1/2" hose line run straight from the hydrant with street pressure. Training manuals of the day show evolutions for the chemical to be stretched for initial attack and a supply line run into the manifold on the chemical apparatus. This manifold was set up for a series of operations which included running straight water through the chemical lines after the tanks were empty. When the Booster was introduced in the 20's it was a technological or "hardware" improvement but procedures remained the same. It wasn't until the middle to late 1930's we begin to see significant effort to introduce 1 1/2" hose and even then it was on a gated wye leader line run from a 2 1/2" line.
The textbooks and manuals by Chief Ernest W. Williams such as the "Firemans Friend" are very informative. The N.B.F.U's first Grading Schedule from 1917 is available on line.
Somewhere I have a catalog or ad for the Fognozl which may supply some insight, now where did I put those catalogs?
 

FAO25

Captain
Re: ODD / Unusal NOZZLES

P.S. Re: Boosters and volunteer departments. I grew up in a city of 30,000 people crammed into four square miles including a large pond. It had minimal industry and some commercial districts mostly it was one and two family homes with a large number of two to four story apartment buildings and a hand full of 8 story residentials, stuffed in cheek to jowl. They ran a 75 man all permanet department with 3 engine companies, a tillered hook and ladder company and a rescue-ambulance in a four platoon system. As late as the middle 1980's I saw them fight a working house fire with only 3 booster lines stretched. Two off the first due pump (gotta love those top mounted dual booster reels) and one from the second due pump.
 

X Chief 1

Firefighter
Tradition dictates much in the fire service and it was very much alive and well in the early days. 1 1/2" hose was in use in 1923 but on a very limited basis - - tradition. Of course 1 1/2" was gated from a 2 1/2" - - pumpers of the day weren't plumbed for 11/2". Chemical wagons were used in many smaller towns because there was no water supply -- with terrible results. Regarding time to get up steam for a steamer - - 5 to 7 minutes if the water wasn't pre-heated. Technology in the early days wasn't very much advanced as it is today and that contributed a lot to what was done in the early days - - just because it was done doesn't make it right. So if you want to attack fires with booster lines go right ahead.
X Chief 1
 

MFDPhoto1

USAF-SAC/Vet.
magicitybill said:
I agree! Sizeup and good judgement are everything, but I have put out a lot of fires with a booster. If it is not enough though do not try to make it work!
This about sums it up...however a good discussion with many idea's and observations on an old issue.

Back to the original post on the (the booster-line) FOGNOZL. Has anyone a 'clue' on who, what, where ? How about from the Civil Defense program during WWII...just a thought ?
 

MFDPhoto1

USAF-SAC/Vet.
A little more data and information on The Fog Nozl:

From Fire Engineering, Volume 90 (1937),

quote;

“Fog Nozzle Tested Fognozl Applicators, one of the several types of fog nozzles marked by the Fog Nozzle Company, Los Angeles, Cal., were given a test in the San Francisco Stadium.

A sedan was doused inside and out with fifteen gallons of gasoline and set afire. The fire was extinguished in eighteen seconds with the use of a 10-foot duraluminum Fognozl Applicator, with a 1-inch Type B head.

Eighteen gallons of water was used. Smoldering upholstery in the car was extinguished with a 5-gallon back pump, equipped with a 2-foot applicator.”


I guess these nozzles just never worked out very well did they. Only 18gals. of water in 18 secs. to put out a car fire.

An example of how the Fire Triangle works. Remove any one of these three properties; FUEL / HEAT / OXYGEN and the fire is all but extinguished. Obviously here...the Oxygen was eliminated...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Attachments

cfb

Lieutenant
MFDPhoto1 said:
This was on a 1940's pumpers' Booster Line. Simply 'twist' the base for either Fog or Straight stream with a 1/2" tip, made of aluminum.

It is 'labeled' as "Fog Nozl" I wonder how many were on other pumpers across the 'fruited plane' ?
i like to have one of them.
 

MFDPhoto1

USAF-SAC/Vet.
Jan. 11, 2013 - A little more on "fog nozzles' from Popular Mechanics 1936

http://books.google.com/books?id=DdsDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA801&ots=lTpeymzIMG&dq=fog%20nozzle%20company%20los%20angeles&pg=PA801#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=DdsDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA801&ots=lTpeymzIMG&dq=fog%20nozzle%20company%20los%20angeles&pg=PA802#v=onepage&q&f=false
 

Box 2565

C.F.D. Engine 14
Staff member
i was surprised to see this Hart Cellar Nozzle with a Jas. Boyd & Bro. casting on it.
Steve Hagy photo.
 

Attachments

Top