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General Fire Discussion => Fire Memorabilia Collections => Topic started by: jk on September 17, 2010, 03:08:18 PM

Title: antique breathing apparatus - SCBA?
Post by: jk on September 17, 2010, 03:08:18 PM
Hi,  This is not from my collection but maybe this subforum is best for my question.
So, HAVE SOME OF YOU EVER SEEN THIS KIND of breathing apparatus?

This  was found from the attic of old fire station in the small town of Kotka, Finland.
.. and with out any background information.

It's not from Jules Verne but it is made in France. Mask and air bottles. I found some information from web, but it was very little:

"The Mandet-Vaginot helmet, adopted by Paris in 1910 and Lyon in 1912, is supplied by a bank of compressed air bottles of 175 kg. It is equipped with a pressure regulator, comprises an artificial lung device made from a leather covered pouch. Breathing autonomy is from 30 to 40 minutes."

As we know the modern SCBA. with pressurized air was invented after WW2. In my hometown in Finland the FD. got first of them in 1954( they were Mandet too). But this seems that there has been something like that already in 1910!
I am curious if somebody knows more about this...
 :)

Jussi Kivi photo
Title: Re: antique breathing apparatus - SCBA?
Post by: FAO25 on September 19, 2010, 07:00:11 PM
Hi,  This is not from my collection but maybe this subforum is best for my question.
So, HAVE SOME OF YOU EVER SEEN THIS KIND of breathing apparatus?

This  was found from the attic of old fire station in the small town of Kotka, Finland.
.. and with out any background information.

It's not from Jules Verne but it is made in France. Mask and air bottles. I found some information from web, but it was very little:

"The Mandet-Vaginot helmet, adopted by Paris in 1910 and Lyon in 1912, is supplied by a bank of compressed air bottles of 175 kg. It is equipped with a pressure regulator, comprises an artificial lung device made from a leather covered pouch. Breathing autonomy is from 30 to 40 minutes."

As we know the modern SCBA. with pressurized air was invented after WW2. In my hometown in Finland the FD. got first of them in 1954. But this seems that there has been something like that already in 1910!
I am curious if somebody knows more about this...
 :)

Jussi Kivi photo

Can you tell if there is a canister of some type of powdered chemical with this? Do the gas tanks indicate if they contained compressed air or oxygen? Based on my research, a SCBA using strictly compressed air with a 30-40 minute duration would have been some what unique at this time. However, Rebreather type SCBA were becoming common. There were several types that came out in this period. Draeger is probably best known but Atmos Proto, Seibe-Gorman, and some others were beginning to be used . A few years later McCaa and Gibbs would follow. These Rebreathers would take the exhaled breath of the wearer and cycle it through a chemical that absorbed the carbon dioxide and then add oxygen from a small tank to compensate for the oxygen consumed in the wearers breathing. The rubber bag is where the scrubbed breath and fresh oxygen would mix and the wearer would draw his breath from there.
Title: Re: antique breathing apparatus - SCBA?
Post by: magicitybill on September 19, 2010, 10:21:58 PM
I have never seen this type of SCBA however it has the appearance of a re-breather. The ventilated connection between the bottles, the bag.  Another interisting feature is the very French comb on top of the mask. This mimics the brass helments of the French fire service.

It is a very interesting piece of history!
Title: Re: antique breathing apparatus - SCBA?
Post by: jk on September 20, 2010, 06:46:12 PM
Hi,  This is not from my collection but maybe this subforum is best for my question.
So, HAVE SOME OF YOU EVER SEEN THIS KIND of breathing apparatus?

This  was found from the attic of old fire station in the small town of Kotka, Finland.
.. and with out any background information.

It's not from Jules Verne but it is made in France. Mask and air bottles. I found some information from web, but it was very little:

"The Mandet-Vaginot helmet, adopted by Paris in 1910 and Lyon in 1912, is supplied by a bank of compressed air bottles of 175 kg. It is equipped with a pressure regulator, comprises an artificial lung device made from a leather covered pouch. Breathing autonomy is from 30 to 40 minutes."

As we know the modern SCBA. with pressurized air was invented after WW2. In my hometown in Finland the FD. got first of them in 1954. But this seems that there has been something like that already in 1910!
I am curious if somebody knows more about this...
 :)

Jussi Kivi photo

Can you tell if there is a canister of some type of powdered chemical with this? Do the gas tanks indicate if they contained compressed air or oxygen? Based on my research, a SCBA using strictly compressed air with a 30-40 minute duration would have been some what unique at this time. However, Rebreather type SCBA were becoming common. There were several types that came out in this period. Draeger is probably best known but Atmos Proto, Seibe-Gorman, and some others were beginning to be used . A few years later McCaa and Gibbs would follow. These Rebreathers would take the exhaled breath of the wearer and cycle it through a chemical that absorbed the carbon dioxide and then add oxygen from a small tank to compensate for the oxygen consumed in the wearers breathing. The rubber bag is where the scrubbed breath and fresh oxygen would mix and the wearer would draw his breath from there.


No chemical filter canister, no oxygen. In those old oxygen masks like Draeger the oxygen bottle was small. These bottles are almost as big than the bottles are today if you have 2 bottle set.

I think this is not rebreather.  I also found infromation that there has been a "cheaper" version of the same Mandet mask and that was with air pump and the air hose from outdoors, but this with bottles is cryptic. Personally I am a little bit sceptic about 30-40 min. duration, but even 25 min. would be revolutionary.

I post also a photo of some oxygen rebreathers and you can see that they look quite different.   On the left(above) is early Draeger from the beginng of 20' th century.


Jussi Kivi photo


Title: Re: antique breathing apparatus - SCBA?
Post by: FAO25 on September 20, 2010, 11:56:15 PM
Hi,  This is not from my collection but maybe this subforum is best for my question.
So, HAVE SOME OF YOU EVER SEEN THIS KIND of breathing apparatus?

This  was found from the attic of old fire station in the small town of Kotka, Finland.
.. and with out any background information.

It's not from Jules Verne but it is made in France. Mask and air bottles. I found some information from web, but it was very little:

"The Mandet-Vaginot helmet, adopted by Paris in 1910 and Lyon in 1912, is supplied by a bank of compressed air bottles of 175 kg. It is equipped with a pressure regulator, comprises an artificial lung device made from a leather covered pouch. Breathing autonomy is from 30 to 40 minutes."

As we know the modern SCBA. with pressurized air was invented after WW2. In my hometown in Finland the FD. got first of them in 1954. But this seems that there has been something like that already in 1910!
I am curious if somebody knows more about this...
 :)

Jussi Kivi photo

Can you tell if there is a canister of some type of powdered chemical with this? Do the gas tanks indicate if they contained compressed air or oxygen? Based on my research, a SCBA using strictly compressed air with a 30-40 minute duration would have been some what unique at this time. However, Rebreather type SCBA were becoming common. There were several types that came out in this period. Draeger is probably best known but Atmos Proto, Seibe-Gorman, and some others were beginning to be used . A few years later McCaa and Gibbs would follow. These Rebreathers would take the exhaled breath of the wearer and cycle it through a chemical that absorbed the carbon dioxide and then add oxygen from a small tank to compensate for the oxygen consumed in the wearers breathing. The rubber bag is where the scrubbed breath and fresh oxygen would mix and the wearer would draw his breath from there.


No chemical filter canister, no oxygen. In those old oxygen masks like Draeger the oxygen bottle was small. These bottles are almost as big than the bottles are today if you have 2 bottle set.

I think this is not rebreather.  I also found infromation that there has been a "cheaper" version of the same Mandet mask and that was with air pump and the air hose from outdoors, but this with bottles is cryptic. Personally I am a little bit sceptic about 30-40 min. duration, but even 25 min. would be revolutionary.

I post also a photo of some oxygen rebreathers and you can see that they look quite different.   On the left(above) is early Draeger from the beginng of 20' th century.


Jussi Kivi photo


This is good. We understand each other and are talking about the same things. There is an American Patent issued to a man from Massachusetts in the U.S. for a compressed air breathing apparatus and it was issued in 1850. :o  
I am posting a link to the web page with the info. Scroll down to Section II under Self Contained Device. I'm sorry it doesn't more specifically address your device but at least it gives a start date for compressed air breathing devices.


http://www33.brinkster.com/iiiii/gasmask/page.html
Title: Re: antique breathing apparatus - SCBA?
Post by: jk on September 21, 2010, 05:41:37 PM
Hi,  This is not from my collection but maybe this subforum is best for my question.
So, HAVE SOME OF YOU EVER SEEN THIS KIND of breathing apparatus?

This  was found from the attic of old fire station in the small town of Kotka, Finland.
.. and with out any background information.

It's not from Jules Verne but it is made in France. Mask and air bottles. I found some information from web, but it was very little:

"The Mandet-Vaginot helmet, adopted by Paris in 1910 and Lyon in 1912, is supplied by a bank of compressed air bottles of 175 kg. It is equipped with a pressure regulator, comprises an artificial lung device made from a leather covered pouch. Breathing autonomy is from 30 to 40 minutes."

As we know the modern SCBA. with pressurized air was invented after WW2. In my hometown in Finland the FD. got first of them in 1954. But this seems that there has been something like that already in 1910!
I am curious if somebody knows more about this...
 :)

Jussi Kivi photo

Can you tell if there is a canister of some type of powdered chemical with this? Do the gas tanks indicate if they contained compressed air or oxygen? Based on my research, a SCBA using strictly compressed air with a 30-40 minute duration would have been some what unique at this time. However, Rebreather type SCBA were becoming common. There were several types that came out in this period. Draeger is probably best known but Atmos Proto, Seibe-Gorman, and some others were beginning to be used . A few years later McCaa and Gibbs would follow. These Rebreathers would take the exhaled breath of the wearer and cycle it through a chemical that absorbed the carbon dioxide and then add oxygen from a small tank to compensate for the oxygen consumed in the wearers breathing. The rubber bag is where the scrubbed breath and fresh oxygen would mix and the wearer would draw his breath from there.


No chemical filter canister, no oxygen. In those old oxygen masks like Draeger the oxygen bottle was small. These bottles are almost as big than the bottles are today if you have 2 bottle set.

I think this is not rebreather.  I also found infromation that there has been a "cheaper" version of the same Mandet mask and that was with air pump and the air hose from outdoors, but this with bottles is cryptic. Personally I am a little bit sceptic about 30-40 min. duration, but even 25 min. would be revolutionary.

I post also a photo of some oxygen rebreathers and you can see that they look quite different.   On the left(above) is early Draeger from the beginng of 20' th century.


Jussi Kivi photo


This is good. We understand each other and are talking about the same things. There is an American Patent issued to a man from Massachusetts in the U.S. for a compressed air breathing apparatus and it was issued in 1850. :o  
I am posting a link to the web page with the info. Scroll down to Section II under Self Contained Device. I'm sorry it doesn't more specifically address your device but at least it gives a start date for compressed air breathing devices.


http://www33.brinkster.com/iiiii/gasmask/page.html

Thanks for your comment and the link. It was interesting even without actual information of this case.
Maybe it is possible to find exact information of that device from France but the lanquage is strange for me.


Title: Re: antique breathing apparatus - SCBA?
Post by: Lightfour on July 11, 2012, 08:05:32 AM
In the UK manual of firemanship circa 1943 it quotes two types of SCBA:
Type 1 by Roberts & McLean
Type 2 by foreign maker (based on description, y. Mandet, France)
Type 2 is more likely the original, Rbts & McLn being the UK distributor then licencee.
I'll try uploading picture of my set dated 1939

The only apparent difference is the orientation of the 2 bottles.
A face mask similar to WWII gas mask is fitted.
The regulator works with a small breathing bag in a case on rear of bottles.
The one pictured seems like an earlier model.
BRgds
Peter
Title: Re: antique breathing apparatus - SCBA?
Post by: magicitybill on July 13, 2012, 08:03:43 AM
Also take a look at "Help Identifying an Old SCBA" in this Forum on May 3rd, 2010 for more on this topic.  Thanks for posting these very early SCBA photos!