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Fire Apparatus Dictionary => Odd and Unusual Rigs => Topic started by: jk on July 24, 2010, 07:58:37 PM

Title: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 24, 2010, 07:58:37 PM
Here is some vintage rigs from my country. It was very common in Finland to build fire trucks on american or  canadian chassis from 1920´s to 1970's .  That was the time of gasolin powered fire engines. From mid 70´s all of our fire trucks has been with diesel engine on european chassis.


- Reo Comet F-20-3-C pumper 1956
- Ford F-250/4x4, mini pumper, 1961 (in service until 2003!)
- Fargo 4x4, pumper, early 60´s
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 24, 2010, 08:25:07 PM
- Ford, pumper, late 1950´s  Pauli Söderholm photo
- Dodge Power Wagon 4x4 pumper , 1966
- Plymouth Valiant  chief's car, 1969
- Ford F-700, pumper, 1963
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: wfdstation42 on July 24, 2010, 09:23:15 PM
Very cool rigs. Is there a reason the wheels are painted black/white/black/white?
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: SixbyFire on July 25, 2010, 02:20:16 AM
Wow, neat stuff!

Jeff
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 25, 2010, 05:42:41 AM
Very cool rigs. Is there a reason the wheels are painted black/white/black/white?

The idea was to increase visibility with the optic effect of rolling wheels. It doesn't really work.  Anyway this painting style was quite long time in fashion. Especially when some little Fire Departments repainted their older rigs, they often paint the wheels with this "progressive & modern" pattern...
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 25, 2010, 06:10:18 AM
- Ford F-600, pumper-tanker, 1958
- Dodge Power Wagon 4x4, pumper, 1967, ( pump: circa 380 gal./min. water tank 132 gal.)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 25, 2010, 11:08:36 AM
- Fargo FH4-60, pumper, 1939
This apparatus have a special history. It belongs to the vol. fd. in Helsinki. 1939 Soviet Union attacked Finland. The first fire call for the rig was the blaze after air raid.  When the war was continuing the army took the rig. It was serving in the east front. War took  years and after it, the rig was given back to the vfd.  It was full of bullet holes and some bigger grenade scratches, but the chassis and engine was ok. The poor vfd. had to make a new coach for it.

It's still running as museum vehicle without big restaurations.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 25, 2010, 03:22:42 PM
Chevy, pumper, 1938
Dodge 4x4 ( ex US army??), light pumper, (1939)  
Photos:jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: FAO25 on July 25, 2010, 09:14:23 PM
Incredible! Thanx for sharing.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 26, 2010, 08:02:01 AM
Ford V40, Foam unit with foam mast. City of Helsinki FD. (year put into service 1941)

First this was a hose wagon, then converted  as a foam tender in the department workshop ( 1959).

Willys 4x4, light pumper (1950´s)

photos: jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on July 26, 2010, 08:07:46 PM
- Ford, pumper, late 1950´s
- Dodge Power Wagon 4x4 pumper , 1966
- Plymouth Valiant  chief's car, 1969
- Ford F-700, pumper, 1963


(top) 1957 Ford
(bottom) 1965 Ford

Neat stuff...thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on July 26, 2010, 08:16:59 PM
- Ford F-600, pumper-tanker, 1958
- Dodge Power Wagon 4x4, pumper, 1967

The Ford is a '57...
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 26, 2010, 09:42:33 PM
- Ford F-600, pumper-tanker, 1958
- Dodge Power Wagon 4x4, pumper, 1967

The Ford is a '57...
Yes, the model could be 57 . The information what I have could also mean the year when it was purchased. Also the Dodge could be earlier model than 1967...
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 27, 2010, 07:36:50 AM
2 Chevrolet pumpers from late 1940's
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 28, 2010, 04:10:05 AM
Ford F3135, ladder (Metz) 100 ft.  1958
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on July 28, 2010, 08:44:02 AM
2 Chevrolet pumpers from late 1940's

What are their pump capacities, and do they carry any water?
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 29, 2010, 06:18:32 AM
2 Chevrolet pumpers from late 1940's

What are their pump capacities, and do they carry any water?
I don't know exactly, but I think the pump capacity has been approx. 1000 - 1500 liters/min. = 264 - 396 GALLONS/min.
Water tank approx. 300 Gallons
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 29, 2010, 08:19:25 AM
Dodge 500, pumper, purchased 1969, made in small local coach workshop.

Ford T-707 6x4,  Nummela ladder 131 feet, 1963 (painted with day-glow orange)

Fargo  D-500, pumper, 1962

(photos:jk)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 29, 2010, 08:44:17 AM
- International Loadstar, pumper, I don't know the year, but I think this is from late 60's or early 70's

- Ford F-600, pumper, 1966
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 29, 2010, 09:11:19 AM
International 4x4,  light pumper, 1960's
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: GRide on July 29, 2010, 09:13:36 AM
Great pics!  I love the wooden roll-up cabinet doors on the 1938 Chevy in post #7.  They are one more case showing that enclosed four-door cabs, roll-up cabinet doors, internal ladder storage, and chevrons are not new ideas.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: START WATER on July 29, 2010, 01:22:20 PM
thank you for posting  .Is there ever  a problem with the front mount pumps  in the winter  freezing up  on a run .  The US Army fire trucks  were  hard to keep open  in korea and they moved  to mid mount  pumps.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 29, 2010, 02:29:12 PM
thank you for posting  .Is there ever  a problem with the front mount pumps  in the winter  freezing up  on a run .  The US Army fire trucks  were  hard to keep open  in korea and they moved  to mid mount  pumps.

The reason for closed cab and equipment cabinets is very much the winter.  It's long and cold here, but somehow the freezing pumps hasn't been a big problem. Some pump types were freezing easier than others. Front mount pumps was  quite common until the beginning of 1980's, but not anymore. Today the modern rescue pumpers have rear mounted pumps and the pump is inside the equipment cabinet and there is heating too. Also some front mounted pumps had a heating system. Some departments also used removable isolated cover in their front pumps while driving.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on July 29, 2010, 06:22:41 PM
- International Loadstar, pumper, I don't know the year, but I think this is from late 60's or early 70's

- Ford F-600, pumper.  (mid 1960's)

1966...these are very interesting, keep 'em comin'!
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 30, 2010, 08:03:52 AM
 DeSoto L8-D500, pumper, water tank 396 Gal. chassis 1958, built as a fire engine in 1964. Photo Pauli Söderholm 1973

Ford, pumper, ( I dont know the year of the model, but the fire engine coach is probably built 1970/72). photo jk

Dodge PW 4x4, light attack pumper, year model not know, bodywork mid 50's.  Photographer unknown.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: paulromano on July 30, 2010, 09:01:17 AM
Great Rigs!! Thanks for sharing.

Was there one particular manufacturer that installed the firefighting equipment on those chassis?

I can understand the use of the heavy truck chassis from the USA but can't quite rationalize the Plymouth Valiant Chief's car.

Some of the photos you posted seemed to be at Muster type events.  Are these rigs collected after their duty days are done and did many survive?
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 30, 2010, 09:15:45 AM
- International Loadstar, pumper, I don't know the year, but I think this is from late 60's or early 70's

- Ford F-600, pumper.  (mid 1960's)

1966...these are very interesting, keep 'em comin'!

Thank's, it's nice to hear that you are interested. I have more  pictures and could post them occasionally. There's lot of nostalgy in the old rigs and nice design too. Unfortunately I  have many pictures without  technical information about the rigs. 

Basicly the technical concept of fire engine in Finland ( and generally in Europe) has been quite different than in US.  We don't have that hose bed at the back of the engine. Or it's very rear... today in my town (population 500 000) here is just one special "hose layer" -unit with a little bit similar arrangement. That unit is for a major fires and don't have many calls per year. 

Until mid 70's here was more hose wagons because the water tank's were smaller, but concept was anyway different than "pumper" at your side of the pond. Also the pumps has been much smaller here.

Typical pump capasity from 1950's to early 70's was something between 264 - 790 gpm, but 790 gpm  was already quite rare.  Today ordinary rescue pumper have  790gpm. or little bit more...






Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 30, 2010, 09:50:48 AM
Great Rigs!! Thanks for sharing.

Was there one particular manufacturer that installed the firefighting equipment on those chassis?

I can understand the use of the heavy truck chassis from the USA but can't quite rationalize the Plymouth Valiant Chief's car.

Some of the photos you posted seemed to be at Muster type events.  Are these rigs collected after their duty days are done and did many survive?

-There has been 3 main manufacturer on those days and quite many of these rigs here are built by one them: It's name is "Kulmala" and  they built first fire apparatus in 1920's and last in 1970's. It's relatively small family company and still in fire equipment business (pumps. etc), but not building fire engines anymore.
- Some rigs are made by small local coach builders/workshops or even by the fire departments.

.... Plymouth Valiant Chief's car is unigue.  Asst's Chiefs in daily job didn't have american cars, they had cheaper rigs, but this belonged to the Fire Chief of City of Helsinki. He was the chief of biggest FD in the country and american cars were expensive status symbols...   So, that rig wasn't really an emergency vehicle in daily use, the blue warning lights were more because of image. (Of course sometimes he also went to major fires...)

- Most of the rigs in these colour photos are preserved, but not all. The BW pictures are old archive stuff, those rigs doesn't excist anymore.





Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: START WATER on July 30, 2010, 03:40:28 PM
thank you for the fast reply  .I FOUND A WEB SITE SHOWING AMERICAN  BUILT  EARLY WW2  DUAL AXLE  TRUCKS BEING USED AS A CRASH TRUCK

ALSO SOME ONE OVER IN YOUR AREA   REBUILT A WW2  ARMY  FIRE TRUCK TRUCK .    i can not post here yet  send me a e-mail and i will send a pictures  as a attachment  thats for everyone   send to Battlelamp @aol.com

some days even i am amazed  as  to what i find  . Yesterday i picked  a ol;vdr tape  , and turned it on  and it was  history show  about Amsterdam
and their was a fire dept response with horses .around  1920
if anyone is looking for  anything i just might have it .

start water
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 31, 2010, 12:02:24 PM
-Ford F-700, Nummela Sky-Lift -19-3 snorkel, 60 feet, 1966.  This was the first snorkel in Finland.  Pauli Söderholm photo.

-Fargo CT-800 6x4, Sky-Lift snorkel, 91 feet,  1968,  Belongs to the City of Helsinki FD. fire museum collection. photo jk.

The snorkels were made by Nummela, which was an old family company. It was originally a coach builder; busses, fire engines and pumps +  other special vehicles for domestic markets in Finland. In 1950's they started to make also ladders and then snorkels in 60´s. First their snorkel was named "Nummela Sky- Lift", then just "Sky-Lift".  After some time and changes in the ownership the brand is today worldwide known as BRONTO Sky-Lift and it is global market leader in truck mounted hydraulic platforms.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 31, 2010, 03:28:00 PM
Ford tanker, end of 1950's
photo: P. Söderholm
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 31, 2010, 06:16:41 PM
Ford F-520, pumper, (bodywork Kulmala), 1955
(photo: jk)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 31, 2010, 06:24:40 PM
Ford Country Sedan, fire dept. ambulance, 1963
photo: P.Söderholm
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 31, 2010, 06:37:26 PM
GMC  CCKW-353 6x6 (1945) (ex US army??) This is airfield crash rig, self made by the state department of aviation in 1959. The boat is because the  airfield was near the river.  
photo: P.Söderholm
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 31, 2010, 06:59:03 PM
International L170, pumper, water tank 1800 liters/475 gal. Purchased 1954
Pauli Söderholm photo.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 31, 2010, 07:20:58 PM
Chevrolet HS-158-39, pumper , The bodywork is made in the workshop of a small fire department of city of Kuopio (1939).  Today it is preserved in their fire museum.  (photo:jk)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 31, 2010, 10:06:14 PM
Dodge Power Wagon 4x4, pumper, year I don't  know....circa late 50's or early 60's
photo: P. Söderholm
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 01, 2010, 09:07:38 AM
Ford F-7 Big Job /159, pumper-tanker, water 634 gal.
Originally this was with mid mounted pump, in 1968 it got a new front mounted 792 gpm. pump.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 01, 2010, 09:25:49 AM
Ford F-350 4x4, 1965, originally this has been a light pumper with rear mounted pump, then later just with a portable pump.  Photo: jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 01, 2010, 09:51:52 AM
International Loadstar 1603, Kulmala pumper, water tank 3200 liters, purchased 1973  Photo: P. Söderholm
International was a popular chassis for a fire apparatus here in 60's. but this might be the last one which was ever built.  That was the end of the era of gasolin powered american chassis as a fire apparatus in Finland. Later fire engines were built on diesel powered european chassis.    
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 01, 2010, 10:08:09 AM
Ford F-800, Nummela Ladder  131 feet, 1963.  (Belongs to the collections of Helsinki Fire Dept. museum)
photo: jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 01, 2010, 10:56:21 AM
Ford pumper, year not known - late 60's or early 70's    photo: jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 01, 2010, 06:13:16 PM
International Loadstar  1600,  pumper, water tank 1600 liters... 1965,  In service 1965-2002
photo: jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 01, 2010, 06:39:43 PM
Ford GPW 4x4, 1945 (ex US army)
These are parade pictures  and the crew is with 1940's helmets and equipments etc.  
(photo:jk)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 02, 2010, 06:27:37 AM
International 1300 4x4, 1964, light pumper, tank: 317 gal.  pump: 607 gpm.
(photo: P. Söderholm)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 03, 2010, 06:03:44 AM
Dodge 1939, "pumper" This had a mid mounted pump and portable pump and it was the only rig of a small twp. vol. fd.
They had more members than money to buy rigs, so it's like a bus that there is space for everyone...
(photo:P.Söderholm)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 04, 2010, 06:15:22 PM
Diamond, pumper 264 gpm. tank 396 gal.  Self made bodywork by City of Oulu FD. 1937
(photo: P. Söderholm)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: START WATER on August 04, 2010, 11:33:05 PM
  JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR POSTING THE GREAT PHOTOS
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 06, 2010, 06:57:40 AM
  JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR POSTING THE GREAT PHOTOS

Thank's for your encouragement, I'll continue, it's a pleasure to share pictures with those who have the same interest. I have found a lot of interesting things from this forum too...
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 09, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
Ford pumper, late 60's
photo: jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: gpwhitworth on August 09, 2010, 07:03:12 PM
Great posts,thank you
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 12, 2010, 06:35:03 PM
Fargo F- 300 Power Wagon 4x4, light pumper, 1962
photo: jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 13, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Ford 79 157,  pumper, 1937
photo: jk

Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 14, 2010, 10:36:37 AM
Ford  F-620 pumper, 1955
Pauli Söderholm photo (1972)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 14, 2010, 10:46:46 AM
International RF, Sawmill industrial brigade pumper-tanker, self-made bodywork, 1955.   Pauli Söderholm photo (1974)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 14, 2010, 10:56:34 AM
 Chevrolet VB, pumper,  1939  Pauli Söderholm photo (1969)

Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 14, 2010, 11:14:54 AM
Fargo pumper, 1961
Pauli Söderholm photo (1975)


Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 14, 2010, 12:48:29 PM
Fargo pumper, 1960's  Painted with day-glow red.
photo: jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 15, 2010, 06:24:08 AM
Ford 698T pumper, tank 660, 1946, purchased 1948
Pauli Söderholm photo 1970
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 15, 2010, 06:42:15 AM
Ford T700 6x4, pumper-tanker, tank 713 gal.  Waterous low/high pressure pump 528 gpm (8 bar), 1955.
Pauli Söderholm photo 1972
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 15, 2010, 06:59:32 AM
Hudson Super Six (chassis 1927),  built as a fire engine in 1933. pump 396 gpm, tank 132.
Jussi Kivi photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 15, 2010, 02:12:28 PM
Dodge Power Wagon -6-126 4x4, Keira-Lift Snorkel,  chassis 1956
Pauli Söderholm photo 1976
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 17, 2010, 03:17:11 PM
"The Snow white" - Fargo pumper from early 60's.. One reason for closed cabs and equipment compartments.
Photo jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: squad546 on August 17, 2010, 11:28:45 PM
Hudson Super Six (chassis 1927),  built as a fire engine in 1933. pump 396 gpm, tank 132.
Jussi Kivi photo
Love that Hudson! Is it restored or have they just taken great care of it over the years?
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 18, 2010, 06:11:56 AM
Hudson Super Six (chassis 1927),  built as a fire engine in 1933. pump 396 gpm, tank 132.
Jussi Kivi photo
Love that Hudson! Is it restored or have they just taken great care of it over the years?

It is gently restored, but it has been in good hands too. The chassis  have a special history.
The original owners were alcohol smugglers in the times of prohibiton law (1919-1931).
 Police catch them and state took the vehicle. Later it was sold in a sale to a small VFD. They gave the chassis to a fire equipment company who converted it to fire engine. It's still running well.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 18, 2010, 04:54:02 PM
Ford 917T, pumper, 1939
Märta Söderholm photo 1970
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 27, 2010, 05:41:30 PM
Chevy RX, pumper, tank 792 gal. 1948
Pauli Söderholm photo 1969
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 28, 2010, 06:53:16 AM
Ford F-600, 1959, pumper
Pauli Söderholm photo 1975
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: START WATER on August 28, 2010, 04:01:51 PM
     thank you once again  for post ing such great rigs   In most built up areas  of the USA  Fire Stations  are pretty close  . Many  don't  knkow  how far  apart the fire styations can be in europe ,  and also how hard it is to produce images  of rigs.
forexample  wher i live in Philadelphia Pa Usa   there are  around 1,000  fire stations  in a foty mile diameter ,    Each county hads around 100 , and there are around ten countys  counting Philadelphia which is a county and a city .   when i  was in spain with the USAF we were first in fire company  15 miles away and we had a job  3 rooms and a hall way
built up area no hydrants ,  loads of fun .   as  always feel free to send aemail with any questions  to balllelamp @aol.com and i will send  photos , as attachments    sw 
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on August 29, 2010, 08:26:22 AM
    thank you once again  for post ing such great rigs   In most built up areas  of the USA  Fire Stations  are pretty close  . Many  don't  knkow  how far  apart the fire styations can be in europe ,  and also how hard it is to produce images  of rigs.
forexample  wher i live in Philadelphia Pa Usa   there are  around 1,000  fire stations  in a foty mile diameter ,    Each county hads around 100 , and there are around ten countys  counting Philadelphia which is a county and a city .   when i  was in spain with the USAF we were first in fire company  15 miles away and we had a job  3 rooms and a hall way
built up area no hydrants ,  loads of fun .   as  always feel free to send aemail with any questions  to balllelamp @aol.com and i will send  photos , as attachments    sw  
Thanks for your comment.  
I know that the density of fire stations in built up areas in US is more than in Europe - generally. You wrote about Spain and I think in south europe it's less than in north and middle europe.  
In my town Helsinki, which is the capital we have 585 000 population and 7 full time fire stations (+ one extra in a island in summer tourist season)
FD. have 2 assistant chiefs / shift. Every station have ambulance and a rescue-pumper with 4-6 men (minimum 4). Also there is 1 heavy rescue squad without pump(4-6 men) and another special 4 man heavy rescue squad which do also water rescue- diving and chemical diving),   4 aerials ( 1 man) 2 big tankers (1 man) and then some special rigs: hose wagon, salvage, hazmat, mobile command bus, etc.
The population has been growing and they are now building one more station.  Also there is 2 more stations in future plans.  
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: START WATER on August 29, 2010, 06:35:54 PM
       THANK YOU FOR THE  REPORT ON YOUR FD

OUR CONSTRUCTION HERE IS VERY DIFFERENT  THEN MOST OF EUROPE

WE  HAVE MANY  FRAME INTERIORS OF  BUILDINGS  AND DWELLINGS

AFTER WW2   MANY BUILDINGS WERE REBUILT WITH CEMENT    AND THEN THE  FAKE  FRONT WITH THE OLD LOOK WERE ADDED  SO I BEEN TOLD

OFCOUYRSE SOME       CONSTRUCTION WAS BUILT THREE WAY IT WAS  WITH STRAW ROOFS ETC .   I  HELP HOST  FF'S  THAT COME  OVER FOR A  PARADE  AND A TOUR 
AND WE GO   INTO A  VACANT DWELING WITH A 6 FT HOOK    AND TEACH THEM HOW TO ,OPEN ACEILING   AND THEY ARE AMAZED  HOW MUCH WOOD WE HAVE

LIKE MY FRIEND IN lONDON SAYS  MY FF'S DON'T    OPEN CEILINGS THEY ARE CONCRETE
DON'T  GET ME WRONG  CEMENT BUILINGS  MAKE FOR VERY HOT FIRES

THE ONE BIG FACTORS  WE NEVER HERE  ABOUT  IS THE SO CALLED  GHETTO AREAS

FEW  REPAIRS  LOADS OFADULTS THAT DON'TWORK  RUN DOWN CONDITIONS MANY      ON THE STREETS  AT OOOO HRS  AND ON IT GOES    WE  HAVE MANY ROW HOMES  THAT HAVE ONLY A   SMALL  WALK WAY  BETWEEN THE BACKS AND ARE
 FRAME         I GUESS    WE  WORK   WITH AROUND 600  PER SHIFT  , AND AWARE  60 ENGINES  AND 30  LADDERS  AND  AROUND  50 EMS  UNITS SW
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 04, 2010, 03:58:19 PM
Ford F-100 (1959) Water rescue unit (so called frogman unit) Originally this was an ambulance.
Pauli Söderholm photo 1969
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 04, 2010, 04:13:33 PM
Ford -79, 1937,  tank 264 gallons, pump 184 gpm. This had also a portable pump.
Pauli Söderholm photo 1970
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 07, 2010, 07:07:44 PM
      THANK YOU FOR THE  REPORT ON YOUR FD

OUR CONSTRUCTION HERE IS VERY DIFFERENT  THEN MOST OF EUROPE

WE  HAVE MANY  FRAME INTERIORS OF  BUILDINGS  AND DWELLINGS

AFTER WW2   MANY BUILDINGS WERE REBUILT WITH CEMENT    AND THEN THE  FAKE  FRONT WITH THE OLD LOOK WERE ADDED  SO I BEEN TOLD

OFCOUYRSE SOME       CONSTRUCTION WAS BUILT THREE WAY IT WAS  WITH STRAW ROOFS ETC .   I  HELP HOST  FF'S  THAT COME  OVER FOR A  PARADE  AND A TOUR  
AND WE GO   INTO A  VACANT DWELING WITH A 6 FT HOOK    AND TEACH THEM HOW TO ,OPEN ACEILING   AND THEY ARE AMAZED  HOW MUCH WOOD WE HAVE

LIKE MY FRIEND IN lONDON SAYS  MY FF'S DON'T    OPEN CEILINGS THEY ARE CONCRETE
DON'T  GET ME WRONG  CEMENT BUILINGS  MAKE FOR VERY HOT FIRES

THE ONE BIG FACTORS  WE NEVER HERE  ABOUT  IS THE SO CALLED  GHETTO AREAS

FEW  REPAIRS  LOADS OFADULTS THAT DON'TWORK  RUN DOWN CONDITIONS MANY      ON THE STREETS  AT OOOO HRS  AND ON IT GOES    WE  HAVE MANY ROW HOMES  THAT HAVE ONLY A   SMALL  WALK WAY  BETWEEN THE BACKS AND ARE
 FRAME         I GUESS    WE  WORK   WITH AROUND 600  PER SHIFT  , AND AWARE  60 ENGINES  AND 30  LADDERS  AND  AROUND  50 EMS  UNITS SW


Hi,

There is differences in construction materials between US and Europe, but between the different countries in europe there is differences too. Germany was bombed heavily in ww2. many old town burned down and were rebuilt after the war with concrete  etc..

In East-Europe they have more big fires than in west, the traditon of soviet union is still effecting there in former east bloc countries.  A lot of old buildings in bad condition, bad electricity systems and bad safety culture.

In south europe the mentality is also different. They dont put so big effort for safety, they believe more to destiny etc....


- I live in Finland and soviet bombed some of our towns in ww2. but it wasn't so effective and no massive destruction. There wasn't need for rebuilt the whole cities, just individual houses.  So we have still several old buildings made by stone, bricks and also wooden houses. Generally the wooden houses are smaller because of fire codes . We dont have "flammable ghettoes" with old buildings in bad condition, and not so much vacant houses in the cities. Our towns has been growing  a lot after the war, and that's why many houses are young.

In our neighbour country Sweden, there wasn't war at all. There is lot of old buildings in Stockholm which is the biggest town, but not so much major fires.

The swedish fire dept's are famous of that they use very little water.
One big reason for the differences of fire fighting tactics is tight  building regulations for fire safety. There is a long tradition of that and we share it too.

Off course here is sometimes major fires but generally they are rare. Even the density of fire stations is much less than in US, but still the FD. could get most of fires in control quite quikly and before they spread from one flat to an another and more.

Traditonally our pumpers hasn't been so powerful than yours, even our hydrants are smaller.
 
The main tactic has been long time, that go in with BA. and put fire out. No use for many big streams and turrets spraying water from outside to the burning house in the most of fires.

It doesn't mean that our fire dept's are better than yours, the circumstances are just different. The society has been controlling long time how one can built a house: what are the materials, how the houses and spaces, corridors and rooms are divided so, that fire doesn't spread quikly to whole building... it also means that it is more safer for a ff. to go into house....

But we have some problems too. Finland is leading in fire death statistics in West-Europe. The reason is  the culture of heavy drinking. The typical victim is older single men, who drinks so much that he fall a sleep with cigarette or he start to fry sausage in a pan and forget it and "collapses" because of heavy drinking...and the fire starts. Thats a big problem and the safety education doesnt help. The authorities want's to put sprinklers to their homes but it's too expensive.....

best:
jk




Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: START WATER on September 08, 2010, 12:00:59 AM
THANKS AGAIN   AMERICAN FIREFIGHTERS ALSO  DON SCBA AND ENTER THE BUILDING  ON FIRE  DAY AFTERDAY  , THEY ARE NOT SHOWN ON PHOTOS,ONLY LARGE FIRES WITH OUTSIDE ATTACK ARE SHOWN IN THE PHOTOS .   
      ONE OF OUR PROBLEMS IS THE INTERIORS ARE MADE FROM WOOD  AND MANY OLD BUILDINGS ARE OVER CROWED  WITH PEOPLE    MANY TIMES  IT WILL GO ON FOR MILES   

FOR EXAMPLE   IN THE 60'S THE GHETTO  RAN FROM   IST  ST(FRONT)
TO  33RD  AND THEN NORTH FROM  800 NORTH TO 3500 NORTH 
SNF THHHHHHERE WAERE LARGE SECTIONS IN WEST PHILA  ALSOON T6HE OTHER SIDE OF A RIVER

THERE WER5E AALSO,OLD LARGE MILLS  IN THE AREA N THE MILLS OFTEN BUILT HOMES  FOR THEIR  WORKERS   ROW AFTER ROW  ON 16 FT WIDE STREETS  .  ENG 2 6 813 15,17,21 25 26 27 29 30 31 34 43 45 50,59 

=AND LADDERS 1 3 7 12,14 16 18 23    COVERED THE AREA   AND THE FIRST IN ENG WAS ON LOCATION IN THREE MINUTES OR LESS

PHILA FD  HAS  AROUND 60 ENGS AND 30 LADDERS  PLUS RESCUE,  CHIEFS  AIRPORT, FIRE BOATS ETC .    MY ONE FRIEND WHO WAS HERE FROM GERMANY STATED  I HAVE MORE LUMBER IN MY HOUSE THEN HIS TOWN HAS LUMBER   STAY ALERT  SW

THIS WAS A VERY HIGH FIRE  AREA  ,NOW ITS MUCH LARGER  IN SIZE  AS  FAR AS A GHETTO  BUT MANY OLDER BUILDINGS EITHER BURNED  DOWN OR WERE TORN DOWN       

Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 12, 2010, 07:08:04 AM
Chevrolet "Equipment truck" home made fire engine of  small rural VFD. with portable pump, small water tank and basic equipment.
Year not known. Photo jk
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 17, 2010, 11:50:39 AM
Ford 4x4 light pumper, late 50's, year not know
Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 17, 2010, 12:03:17 PM
Ford F-600, pumper, 60's
J. Kivi Photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 17, 2010, 12:12:37 PM
Ford F-600 1963, pumper, tank 792 gal.
Pauli Söderholm photo 1970
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 17, 2010, 12:19:26 PM
Federal 2502, 1956, tanker
Pauli Söderholm photo 1975
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on September 18, 2010, 12:47:17 AM
Ford 4x4 light pumper, late 50's, year not know
Pauli Söderholm photo

1960
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 05:37:55 AM
Ford  698T, 1946,  pumper, Papermill industrial fire brigade
Pauli Söderholm photo 1975
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 05:42:05 AM
Chevrolet X-255, 1955,  pumper, build as a fire truck in 1960
Pauli Söderhol photo  1973
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 05:50:02 AM
Fargo F-500, pumper, year not known
jk photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 05:56:39 AM
Chevy 1938, pumper, Papermill industrial FD.
Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 05:58:30 AM
International Loadstar, pumper, year not known (early 70´s)
photographer unknown
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 06:02:59 AM
Studebaker K-15, 1938, pumper
Pauli Söderholm photo 1972
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 06:08:31 AM
De Soto W500, 1960, attack pumper
Pauli Söderholm photo 1973

Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 06:16:31 AM
Ford F-600, pumper, year not know (mid 60's)
Today this belongs to a brass band and they use it as a tour vehicle
jk photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: wf33ret on October 09, 2010, 07:27:04 AM
                Jussi,
               Thanks for posting more great photos! I see that on both of the
               Papermill trucks is a front hose connection, would that be a pump
               suction or a discharge ? Thanks again.

                WF33ret
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 08:14:00 AM
                Jussi,
               Thanks for posting more great photos! I see that on both of the
               Papermill trucks is a front hose connection, would that be a pump
               suction or a discharge ? Thanks again.

                WF33ret

Hi, it's pump suction, easier to get water from the natural source. You can see  it's not with very large diameter:  not so powerful pump but that's typical here...
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 09, 2010, 09:52:56 AM
Here is a fleet of the units of one sub station in Helsinki, Finland late 60's
All rigs are on american or canadian chassis.

Left:     Dodge Power wagon hose layer (with portable pump)
middle: Fargo attack pumper, tank circa 250 gal.
right:    International tanker 924 gal.

In that time 3 stations in the town were with same kind of combination.  (and with following tactic:)

The attack pumper starts with first line and booster tank with 4-5 six men + unit commander("captain"). 2 or 3 men wear SCBA already on the way. The tanker give extra water line to attack, and at same time the hose wagon search and dig up the underground hydrant and spread the line from hydrant to attack. In winter it might took a while...

photographer unknown
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on October 20, 2010, 10:04:14 AM
International D-30, 1937, pumper
Pauli Söderholm photo 1971
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 04, 2010, 06:56:25 PM
Ford pumper, late 1950's

Jussi Kivi photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on November 04, 2010, 08:29:59 PM
Ford pumper, late 1950's

Jussi Kivi photo

1960
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on November 04, 2010, 08:31:17 PM
Ford 4x4 light pumper, late 50's, year not know
Pauli Söderholm photo

1960
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on November 04, 2010, 08:31:52 PM
Ford F-600, pumper, year not know (mid 60's)
Today this belongs to a brass band and they use it as a tour vehicle
jk photo

1965
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on November 04, 2010, 08:35:02 PM
Ford T700 6x4, pumper-tanker, tank 713 gal.  Waterous low/high pressure pump 528 gpm (8 bar), 1955.
Pauli Söderholm photo 1972

1954 model; I really enjoy these photos...please, keep 'em comin'!
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 05, 2010, 05:32:53 AM
Thank's for the info about year models and your positive comment.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 13, 2010, 09:19:30 AM
Stuz AA 1927 pumper
This belonged to V.F.D. of small and old industrial village called Fiskars
(Ironworks - founded 1649). First this was a car of the director of the factory. Then they gave the rig to a FD. and it was converted as a fire engine in 1930's. Today it's a museum piece.
( ...but not running anymore)

Pauli Söderholm photo 1969
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 13, 2010, 09:23:13 AM
Federal FF 1937 pumper

Pauli Söderholm photo 1970
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 13, 2010, 09:32:29 AM
Ford F-600, 1957 pumper

Pauli Söderholm photo 1975

Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 14, 2010, 07:28:32 AM
Dodge T214-Weapons Carrier 54 1942, ex US army, light pumper, converted as a fire engine in 1952

Pauli Söderholm photo 1973


Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: magirusfire on November 14, 2010, 09:49:03 PM
The 1927 Stuz fire engine in this series is actually on a 1927 Stutz passenger car chassis, built in Indianapolis In (USA)   Nice vehicle. Any more photos.  Rodger, author, "Stutz Fire Engine Co., Indianapolis."
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 16, 2010, 04:20:17 PM
The 1927 Stuz fire engine in this series is actually on a 1927 Stutz passenger car chassis, built in Indianapolis In (USA)   Nice vehicle. Any more photos.  Rodger, author, "Stutz Fire Engine Co., Indianapolis."

Yes, originally it was a passenger car.  The wheels and motor has been changed later.

No more Stuz pictures, the photo was taken by my friend a long time ago. 2004 I made a book about the history of fire apparatus in Finland, the picture is from that book.  Unfortunately the book is only in finnish language, it's name is "Punainen  kuin paloauto" which means: "Red as a fire truck". Many of the pictures which I have posted here are  also in that book. The edition was small and only few is still left. I enclose here a picture of the cover.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 18, 2010, 06:08:12 PM
Ford F-100 Fire Dept ambulance, registered 1962

Pauli Söderholm photo 1974
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 18, 2010, 06:19:43 PM
Nash Advanced six, 1926, pumper

In 1969 came a law, that every emergency vehicles in Finland should have a blue warning lights.
This picture has been taken in 1970 and the rig have blue beacon. It means that somehow it was still in use, at least registerd as an emergency vehicle.



Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 28, 2010, 05:41:12 AM
Ford F-600 - F610, 1963, pumper - tanker

Pauli Söderholm photo 1972

Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: Twig on November 29, 2010, 09:29:44 PM
Hello!

That rig in Post #100 looks more like an early Seagrave with the
"Sweetheart" grille. Seagrave is a major manufacturer of fire
apparatus in Canada and the United States.

I have a question...Is there any antique or private ownership
groups in Finland who keep and preserve and occasionally show
and parade these nice old rigs?

Thank you.

And as others have said...keep the pictures coming! Interesting!

Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on November 30, 2010, 05:03:05 AM
Hello!

That rig in Post #100 looks more like an early Seagrave with the
"Sweetheart" grille. Seagrave is a major manufacturer of fire
apparatus in Canada and the United States.

I have a question...Is there any antique or private ownership
groups in Finland who keep and preserve and occasionally show
and parade these nice old rigs?

Thank you.

And as others have said...keep the pictures coming! Interesting!



Thanks for your comment.

Yes, it looks like Seagrave but it's Federal. I think they never export any Seagrave to Europe.

Here is not really a groups who preserve old fire rigs, but some private owners and many Fire dept. have preserved their antique vehicles. In my town (Helsinki) F.D. have preserved circa 14-15 old rigs, from 1920's to 80's.

Once a year there is a meeting and parade of old fire engines in a small town which name is  Tammisaari. It's organised by the veterans of local VFD. These few active guy's are quite old and I dont know what is the long term future of that event, when the old one's can't continue anymore...
Many departments have their anniversary parades and every year there is some happenings. This is a small country (5 0000 00 inhabitants). Anyway quite many antique rigs has been saved, but not all of these which I have posted here.

Here is a link to one parade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waPabJqYpqw&feature=related


Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on December 01, 2010, 05:41:11 PM
Studebaker  K 15, 1938, Manpower bus & material carrier with portable pump

Pauli Söderholm photo 1970
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on December 01, 2010, 06:06:37 PM
Ford AA 1931 pumper

Jussi Kivi photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on December 02, 2010, 08:09:36 AM
Willys C 101, 1930  pumper


J. Kivi photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: Twig on December 02, 2010, 09:33:31 PM
Wonderful old apparatus! Nice that you folks preserve your
Fire Service history!  Astounding that so many rigs have
survived the severe winters and hard service!

You might try "Googling" the net for the organizations here
in the U.S. that preserve and exhibit antique fire and rescue
apparatus!

A couple are   "www.spaamfaa.org" and "www.odhfs.org"
these will lead you to others with lots of photos and history.

Keep those pictures coming! VERY educational and fun!

Thank you!
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on December 18, 2010, 06:04:04 PM
Wonderful old apparatus! Nice that you folks preserve your
Fire Service history!  Astounding that so many rigs have
survived the severe winters and hard service!

You might try "Googling" the net for the organizations here
in the U.S. that preserve and exhibit antique fire and rescue
apparatus!

A couple are   "www.spaamfaa.org" and "www.odhfs.org"
these will lead you to others with lots of photos and history.

Keep those pictures coming! VERY educational and fun!

Thank you!

Thanks for your advise, I have seen those web pages of antigue rigs.

You wrote about severe winters and old rigs.
I think the winters has been harder to firefighters than to rigs. There is a story about a volunteer who was quite frozen. They returned from the fire and passed his home and he left the engine which continued back to station.  Then he
found out that his wet wagon coat was so frozen that it was impossible the get the home key from the pocket. Nobody was home, so he had to walk to fire station and wait there until the coat was melted....

Maybe you know that we have lot of sauna's in Finland.  Hot sauna is really part of life here. It means also that every fire station have it.  So, there is a lot of stories from the times of open cab rigs and frozen ff's who must go to hot sauna with full gear, juts to get undressed from their icy coats....





Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on December 18, 2010, 06:09:27 PM
GMC CCKW-353 6x6, 1944 (ex US army), tanker

Pauli Söderholm photo 1973
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 14, 2011, 01:33:40 PM

Ford 098T, 1940, pumper


Pauli Söderholm photo 1974
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 14, 2011, 01:40:50 PM
Fargo Power Wagon W 500, 4x 4,  pumper, 1968

Pauli Söderholm photo 1971
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 14, 2011, 02:59:24 PM
Ford F-600-F61, pumper, 1961

Pauli Söderholm photo 1975
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 15, 2011, 06:21:30 AM
Reo FB Speed Wagon, pumper, 1932

Pauli Söderholm photo 1970
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 17, 2011, 05:49:32 PM
Chevrolet 6400, 1946, pumper,

Pauli Söderholm photo 1973
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 19, 2011, 04:00:52 PM
Willys Jeep pick up 4x4, 1957



Pauli Söderholm photo 1972
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 21, 2011, 05:25:21 AM
Chevrolet SA 1937, light attack pumper

Pauli Söderholm photo 1970
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 27, 2011, 09:02:30 AM
Fargo attack pumper  and Fargo pumper tanker  from 1960´s
Photographed in Åland Fire museum      http://www.aland.com/en/brandkarsmuseum

J. Kivi photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 27, 2011, 09:21:59 AM
Chevrolet 1937,  Manpower Squad and material carrier 

J. Kivi photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on February 27, 2011, 01:32:54 PM
Chevrolet 1937,  Manpower Squad and material carrier 

J. Kivi photo


What is a "material carrier?"
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: START WATER on February 27, 2011, 04:09:09 PM
JK  THANKS AGAIN FOR THE GREAT  POSTINGS  ,MANY  PEOPLE ARE SEEING THIS TYPE OF  FIRE FIGHTING FOR THE FIRST TIME 
THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HISTORY  TO  LEARN FROM   BATTLELAMP
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 27, 2011, 04:58:56 PM


What is a "material carrier?"
[/quote]

Maybe my english is not really perfect.... but I have seen that "word"somewhere, maybe in Britain? Especially the professional words and concepts are difficult, I cant find them from the ordinary dictionary.

....Anyway I mean that this is not a pumper or tanker, or hose wagon etc. but it anyway have some equipments and tools and perhaps portable pump with hoses too.

If you know what could be a perfect word/name for that kind of fire apparatus in your lanquage , please tell me...



Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: magicitybill on February 27, 2011, 09:55:59 PM
In my area we would call that a "service truck". In departments that have a ladder truck most of that equipment would be carried on a truck company. If you do not have a ladder truck then a service truck would carry the various tools & equipment.

Thanks for the photos.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: Engine33Truck on February 28, 2011, 12:08:07 AM
JK,

Thank you for posting these photos!  I always find it very interesting learning what equipment fire departments around the country and around the world have, their history and how they do things on the fire scene.  I really appreciate you posting these rigs from Finland!

Steve and JK,
Magicitybill hit it right on the head.  Fire departments in my area refer to apparatus like that as "utilities" or even "squads" if they have rescue equipment, as squads (or heavy rescues, whichever you prefer) are basically giant toolboxes.  This "material carrier" seems to have the same concept as a rescue or even the good old bread trucks.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on February 28, 2011, 03:30:47 PM

Thanks for your response!

The systems and tactics in different countries and the names of rigs are different. (... and I have already learned something about yours...)

As an example here we dont have unit or a vehicle which is called “pumper” or “engine”. It's is just called "attack" or officially: "supression unit". But today we dont have just supression units, because there is not so much  fires anymore, but lot of other emergency calls.  So there is no sense to have just pumper and today the name and the concept is called just "rescue unit" or just "attack". There is  water, pump, hoses, general tools, generator for electric tools and for lights, hydraulic tools for extrication, EMS first response,  hazmat, salvage material... water rescue (surface) ...all kind of equipments. the idea is that the unit should handle whole spectrum of emergencies as an first aid/ first due unit. Minimum crew is 1+3, ideal: 1+5.

Maybe you call that "rescue pumper" But I think our version is much more like a toolbox than your rescue pumper.   

And still we have some heavy rescue units too.

We dont have unit like american "Hook & ladder" truck company, so here the "attack units" also do the job of your truck  company. Our aerials have only hydraulic ladder or snorkel (today it’s Bronto, mixture of ladder and snorkel), but not ground ladders or other tools,not even a crew, just driver.

In those departments who have heavy rescue squad with the crew, the squad do the ventilation, but most of heavy rescue units in my country are only toolboxes with 1-2 ff. The crews from the attack units use the equipments from the " heavy rescue toolbox".

Our departments use lot of tankers but the hose wagons are really rare. The reason is underground hydrants, - tanker is faster. We have a long tradition and history of tight fire safety building codes. That mean less big fires and less water. In most fires the FD. could keep the fire in that apartment were it started.

I have seen many fire videos in you tube from your country. It seems that even you have very quick response times and your density of fire stations in city areas are much bigger than here, your houses are easily burning well when they once start. Lot of lines with straight streams, powerful pumps and lot of water is needed. I think the reason is in the houses, how they are build and what are the materials. Your equipments and fire departments looks like much powerful than ours. Our society has put the effort more to prevention than suppression.  But of course sometimes it’s not enough.

We have 1,5 and 3 inch lines, and 4 inch (from hydrant to pump) but it is very rare in use. From the ordinary hydrant is possible to get max. two 3 inch lines to the pump.

Ordinary tactic is one 3 inch line, which is divided into two or three 1,5 lines.
3 inch line with nozzle is quite seldom in use. Here the fog(low pressure) is much more popular than straight stream.

… it seems that now this is going to be a long story, too long….

You could find some more facts about our rescue services here, but not really about the differencies in tactics and building codes: 

http://www.pelastustoimi.fi/en/267211/
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: Engine33Truck on February 28, 2011, 09:44:44 PM
Thank you!  I find this very interesting!  I'm a big fan of engine/rescues (or rescue pumpers, or even "squads" in some areas), and it your country's are better equipped than ours.  Ours has a lot of that equipment, but just in smaller amounts, though salvage material is usually carried on hook and ladder companies (aka "truck companies").  With the various rescue and EMS equipment, it all depends on the fire department.  All  engine/rescues carry equipment for vehicle rescue and (at least 90% of E/R's carry) rope rescue, but swift water, trench, collapse, wilderness, and confined space rescue equipment all depends on if the fire department does that particular discipline of rescue or if they rely on another fire department or dedicated team to do it for them while they assist.  Some fire departments don't do EMS, but in this day and age, Fire/EMS is really the way to go.  I know many firefighters and others associated with the fire service that would pose the question "is a Fire/EMS department a fire department with ambulances, or an ambulance company with fire trucks?"  My answer for that is that it all depends on the fire department, as of the three Fire/EMS departments that borders my FD's area (mine is your traditional fire/rescue), two are fire departments with an ambulance for their area, basically as a way to make money.  The third places all their emphasis on EMS (so much so that the engine bays facing the road are occupied by the ambulances and the ALS chase unit, while the fire apparatus are around back), and rightly so because they're the second busiest emergency service in the county (the busiest being a dedicated EMS company, my FD being third busiest).

We have a lot more fires in the US and they're often bigger, mainly because (and I'm not speaking for every area, just the ones I'm familiar with) the building codes are more lax, especially on older buildings, and you have a lot of wooden balloon frame houses.  When they catch fire, they go up like matchboxes.  My city (Keyser) has trouble with that, we have a rule of thumb that we have to get the jump on the fire or else risk losing half the block.  Which is because of the wood balloon frame houses all being packed close together.  I'm more of a dedicated "truckie", which is American slang for a person that works off of a ladder truck, which is mainly all I've ever done on fires, and I find Eurpoean aerials very interesting!  I like them, it's a good concept.  I think though, that everyone has always, and always will, think that the iconic American hook & ladder truck is the Tractor-drawn Aerial (TDA or better known as a "tiller").  They will always be known as the "American fire truck".  I've always loved tillers, as they're large, majestic trucks with A LOT of compartment space and can literally turn on a dime.  I've always wanted to run the "back seat" of a tiller!  Speaking on fire prevention (which I can go on for hours, I'll try not to get started), my definition of an excellent fire department is not one that goes out all the time and does the best job in the world, but one who's fire prevention efforts have minimised the need for that fire department as much as possible.  No, I'm not saying that fire departmetns should make themselves obsolescent, but fire departments in all countries should focus as much on fire prevention as they do fire suppression.

I don't really know if American fire departments are more powerful than European ones, but the typical engine has a 1,250gpm pump, and a 500 gallon tank.  Most ladders that I'm familiar with, that have pumps, have 2,000gpm pumps.  The average engine has 3 1 3/4" preconnects on the pump house, two 2 1/2" preconnects on the hosebed, and supply line of 3", 4" (which isn't very common), and 5", or a combination thereof.  Personally myself, I despise straight streams unless you're doing a "surround and drown" for a fully-involved fire.  When performing an interior attack, all straight streams do is push the fire through the building, doing more damage than necessary.  I prefer, and will only use, fog patterns in a building, as it encompasses, contains, and extinguishes the fire without causing more damage than necessary.

I have a feeling we could go on for hours, but we'd end up hijacking the topic.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: tinbero on March 01, 2011, 08:36:34 PM
Very nice pics =) ...and a really instructive brief explanation of both realities =)
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on March 03, 2011, 01:26:55 PM

[/quote]

Thanks for your answer&comments. Yes, this writing could take hours. Specially for me because english is not my lanquage....

But the topics are interesting.  In my town paid FD. was founded in 1861. They start the ambulance service in 1909.  In 1990 the chief decided to change the name from  FD. to Rescue Dept.  In that time they also designed the idea of multi purpose rescue unit, so that there is not anymore separate "engines " and rescue squads.  Still here is 2 heavy rescue squads (with out water and pump) in town, but they are special units. The tankers are just pure fire trucks.

You wrote about "balloon frame" buildings/houses. That concept is not familiar for me, but I guess what it means: house like matchbox. My question is what make them so flammable? Is it the materials or the way how the house is constructed?

We have also wooden houses. 1-2 floor single family houses or long "rowhouses" with several apartments are common. Also we have some old 3 floors wooden houses. Fire in that kind of building could be bad and difficult. But somehow it is out of question that it could really spread to next house or to the whole block. I mean, if there is a fire dept. on the scene. Also when there is a wooden house, there should be enought space between the houses. In some old towns there is not so much that space, but those are rare special cases (build in nineteenth century or ealier).

Generally our old wooden houses are made of thick wood. If the doors are closed the walls could hold the fire in side the room for a while, which gives some possibilities to the fire dept. Of course it´s not always like that, sometimes they really burn to the ground.

Because of cold winters our walls are well isolated, nowadays the isolation stuff is  not burning material. That also helps. In old buildings it's opposite: isolation material between the inner and outer wall is sawdust or turf/piet, thats nasty because the fire could spread in that.

Typical pump capacity in our engines from 1959´s to early 70´s was something between 260 - 790 gpm. but 790 gpm was quite rare.

Today basic rescue unit have 790 gpm. or little bit more.
In my town the rescue unit have 2000 Liters/ 528 gal. tank, but generally in other towns and rural areas they could have 790 - 924 gallons water and that's quite common.

Tankers have normally 2640 - 3170 gal.      The biggest which I know have  5098 gal.

OK. now it's time to cool down again, this writing could take hours..... ::)
Maybe I'll start a new topic about pictures of current apparatus in my country some day. I dont have so much pictures of them because my main interest is more the history and vintage rigs. :o


Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: Engine33Truck on March 03, 2011, 02:15:44 PM
Balloon frame construction is when support beams, called "studs" run continuously from sill plate to eave line with no stops, and the floors are nailed to the studs.  It's a rather quick way to build a large house, but the drawback is with long open gaps, if a fire gets started in the walls, fire can easily and quickly spread throughout the walls and be pretty well involved before anyone realises the house is on fire.  It was primarily used in the US, Canada and Scandinavia, but has largely been replaced with platform construction.

I like the sound of the contruction in your country, it sounds like the houses are really well built an insulated.  I'm not saying American houses arent, but often it seems like the US housing market has a "form over function" approach.  The pump size of your rigs sounds rather small.  In the 1950s in the US, 750-1,000 gpm pumps were common.  Those are good size tankers, I like their tank size.  Here in the US, 1,500 to 2,500 are common, however I have seen tractor-trailers (I think they're called lorries in Europe) that have been converted to FD tankers.

I'm with you, I prefer seeing vintage rigs, but I would like to see current rigs as well, if you should post them.  There's only a few posted on these forums, usually they're one-off rigs.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on March 03, 2011, 05:22:57 PM


Thanks, now I got it (balloon...) I also did google search and found some pictures of that construction type. It's  different than what we have here. Main difference is that our walls dont have that vertical "chimney" from the basement to attic...
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: Engine33Truck on March 03, 2011, 11:08:53 PM
Chimneys do look pretty, but they're a pain in the rear. 
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on March 10, 2011, 06:21:18 PM
Fordson Sussex 6x4, 1939, pumper - tanker with self made bodywork made by the members of a small vol. fire dept.

Fordson trucks were made in Ford factories in Britain. I dont know if there were any technical differences with those Fords which were made in US.  

Photo Pauli Söderholm 1972
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on March 10, 2011, 06:30:26 PM
Fordson Sussex 1937, another home made rural fire apparatus

Photo Pauli Söderholm 1973
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on March 10, 2011, 06:34:19 PM
Fordson Sussex 1939, pumper-tanker



Photo Pauli Söderholm

Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: Engine33Truck on March 10, 2011, 08:10:23 PM
Those are very interesting trucks!  Though is it just me, or goes almost every classis Finnish rig have the same model of light dome?
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on March 11, 2011, 05:05:07 AM

Those are very interesting trucks!  Though is it just me, or goes almost every classis Finnish rig have the same model of light dome?
[/quote]

If you mean those blue warning lights they are all same model.  The brand is Hella and it's made in Germany. It was very common in many countries in West-Europe.  I think it was the only model which was imported to Finland. This is a small country (population 5 000 000) and here is small markets for that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on March 31, 2011, 11:22:07 AM
International 1928, pumper

J. Kivi photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on March 31, 2011, 11:29:00 AM
Ford pumper, late 50's

photographer unknown
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: bulldogboy on April 02, 2011, 09:34:57 PM

  jk:

   The Ford pumper in #143 is a 1959 model. Why were so many American chassis used in
   Finland? Were these chassis built in Europe or imported from the U.S.? Why weren't
   European truck chassis used for fire apparatus? Lots of questions; thanks for the answers
   and all the pictures that you have posted.

                                      bulldogboy
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on April 03, 2011, 02:52:09 PM
Most of the chassis were imported from US and Canada.

These american chassis were popular in some other countries. like Sweden & Denmark too. I dont know what was the main reason, but I think it was the gasoline engines. Many european chassis were with diesel engine. In those days the fire chiefs were skeptical of diesel engine in Fire apparatus.  Also some american brands had a good name too.
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 09, 2011, 07:22:26 PM
Chevrolet 1929 fire truck with portable pump, home made bodywork

J. Kivi photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 09, 2011, 07:32:35 PM
Dodge Power Wagon 4 x 4 light attack pumper.
Finnish advertisement from 1950 's
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 10, 2011, 08:42:46 AM
Chevrolet VB 1939 ladder truck

Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: START WATER on July 22, 2011, 04:59:12 PM
  JK i am sure i can say all the  members  here at Yongstown and all americans are  very sorry to hear about thre bombing  today in Norway .  this is the act of a coward  no life  scum bumb .

This has occured  to many times  over the years
but we all  mustt  remember " freedom is not free."

In 2003  the press asked his Commander  a question on how to win th3 was  "he stated  I would blow the bastards back to the stone  age  but they are  not that far along yet  yet"

are best to all; the injured  .  start water   
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on July 23, 2011, 06:56:02 PM
 JK i am sure i can say all the  members  here at Yongstown and all americans are  very sorry to hear about thre bombing  today in Norway .  this is the act of a coward  no life  scum bumb .

This has occured  to many times  over the years
but we all  mustt  remember " freedom is not free."

In 2003  the press asked his Commander  a question on how to win th3 was  "he stated  I would blow the bastards back to the stone  age  but they are  not that far along yet  yet"

are best to all; the injured  .  start water    


- Norway,  it's almost neighbor country. The latest news are telling about 98 victims of bombing and shooting. Rescue workers are still searching.  Scandinavia has been quite peaceful, but there is nuts everywhere. The police catch him - alive. He is fundamental christian & extreme right wing crazy nationalist and against freedom...and everything, except his own crazy thoughts. Not from stone age. No simple answers but lot of sorrow...

Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 23, 2011, 07:41:59 AM
Cadillac 61, 1923 light attack unit.

In US you have that running board for the crew in the rear of the engine. As you see in my country there is a sofa. It's nice and smooth...


Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on September 24, 2011, 06:09:24 AM
Ford  817T, 1938, Self made suppression unit with portable pump

Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on December 24, 2011, 07:15:21 AM
Fargo W-300, 4x4 pumper  1962

Pauli Söderholm photo  1972
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on December 25, 2011, 08:07:03 AM
 Ford T700  6x 4 pumper , 1955
Pauli Söderholm photo  1972
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on January 03, 2012, 05:47:49 PM
Fargo F-500 4x4 pumper, 1968

JK photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on May 17, 2012, 04:14:38 AM
Ford Big Job F-7 / Kulmala pumper, 1952
Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on May 17, 2012, 04:30:34 AM
Ford F- 700 Tanker 1959
Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on May 17, 2012, 04:38:47 AM
Dodge 105 AL  tanker with portable pump 1951
Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on May 17, 2012, 04:41:25 AM
Fargo 500 pumper, 1960´s
Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on May 17, 2012, 04:48:02 AM
Dodge PW 6-126 4x4, Keira-Lift snorkel
Pauli Söderholm photo 1976
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on May 18, 2012, 04:06:34 PM
Ford pumper-tanker, late 1950´s
Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on May 18, 2012, 04:08:16 PM
Ford pumper, late 1950´s
Pauli Söderholm photo
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on May 22, 2012, 12:17:19 PM
Ford pumper-tanker, late 1950´s
Pauli Söderholm photo

1957
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: boardmansteve on May 22, 2012, 12:17:47 PM
Ford pumper, late 1950´s
Pauli Söderholm photo

1960
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: jk on January 27, 2015, 06:40:03 PM
Fargo Power Wagon 4x4 light pumper
Kauniainen/Grankulla V.F.D. Finland,  1960's

unknown photographer
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: mackcffan2014 on January 31, 2015, 12:17:36 AM

That is so cool! Thank you for sharing!
Title: Re: Finnish vintage rigs on american / canadian chassis
Post by: Box 2565 on January 31, 2015, 01:58:10 AM
These rigs are fascinating.  Looking at the chassis I expect to find a fire engine that was built in North America, but then these strange looking (strange to me!) European jobs show up.  Great thread...