Repair & Restoration Questions for Alarm Equipment

[yfdgricker]

Hi Bob,

Glad to see your post on the forums. I don't have a definitive answer for you but I did ask the same question you are asking now. I had a call box from Youngstown and wanted to mount it on a piece of telephone pole in my fire room. Youngstown also painted stripes on the telephone poles to indicate there was a fire box there. Many of the painted poles still dot the Youngstown streetscape. I wanted to paint stripes on my pole also. So my buddy Bill and I set out one afternoon to see if there was any sure fire measurements for the painting of the pole stripes. We went around Youngstown and took measurements of the existing pole stripes. We hit 10 or 15 different locations in various sections of the city and although there were not all identical, they were pretty close in size. Typically, the top and bottom stripes averaged 4 inches in width. The center larger stripe was approximatly 20 inches. (see attached picture).  Also I've included a photo of the finished painted pole in my collection. Hope this helps give you some approximations. Hope someone else can offer their measurements as well.

[FD59]

I was looking through a copy of I.M.S.A. Fire Alarm Manual (Effective 7-1-72) and found a diagram titled "Installation of Fire Alarm Box on Wooden Pole". Shown is a fire box mounted with the bottom of the box 52-60" from the ground and three paint stripes: the top is an 8" white band (yellow optional), an 18" red band in the middle and an 8" white band (yellow optional) on the bottom.

[paulyfire264]

High everyone,
 
I am a 22 year old fireman just outside of Chicago in the suburbs.  I am fairly new to the fire service I only have about four years on the job. However I am eager to learn as much as I can about it as possible.  A few years ago I decided to collect antiques and restore them to the best of my ability. Right now I have quite the collection, including a complete wooden water main, large piece of leather fire hose, Muffin bell, New York Leather Fire Bucket and an original Philadelphia Fire Mark. I just recently obtained an old alarm box from which I was told was from Boston from 1880. It is made by Gamewell, does have the number plate, Cole Key Guard, Slanted Fist, and the complete inner box and mechanisms. A senior fireman on my department, who is a big collector suggested to me to restore it. He told me that this will increase the value and the condition dramatically. He has never actually restored his boxes to the extent that in which I would like to do mine.  Since I have never restored an alarm box before, and since this is my first box, i am a little apprehensive about doing so. I thought about sandblasting the shell. Then removing the "guts" and taking them out of the inner box and sandblasting that as well. and then polishing the "guts" to a pristine condition. Attached are a few pictures. I hope they help.
 
Does anybody have any suggestions? I would really like to do this the right way.
 
Thanks for your help,
Paul

[Boxcom]

Hi gang!
     Got a little issue with a Gamewell master fire box.  It is local energy and hooked up to a school's FA system. (Note, this box issue is in regard to an working system in NJ).  The box is not transmitting the box number.  In addition, it is fluctuating between 50 and 100 mA.  Its a short run of C-wire from the box to the main circuit (which is new multipair wire).  The C-Wire run is about 200 feet.  The C-Wire appears to be in good shape (no cracks, breaks, notches, etc).  All connections from the main circuit to the terminal box, down to the fire box are tight.  The box was taken apart and there is continuity and all parts appear to be in working order.  It jumps from 100 to 50 to 100 mA despite wind.  There is a good, new ground installed.  The proper tangent supports and dead ends are used.  Now, according to the fire chief, the box used to work fine until the school got a new FA system this past year.  Again, though, all seems ok.  In addition, I put the box on a VOM and the box was sending out the right voltage when it was activated.  Any ideas?? :?

Bob K

[mlmummert]

Hi gang!
     Got a little issue with a Gamewell master fire box.  It is local energy and hooked up to a school's FA system. (Note, this box issue is in regard to an working system in NJ).  The box is not transmitting the box number.  In addition, it is fluctuating between 50 and 100 mA.  Its a short run of C-wire from the box to the main circuit (which is new multipair wire).  The C-Wire run is about 200 feet.  The C-Wire appears to be in good shape (no cracks, breaks, notches, etc).  All connections from the main circuit to the terminal box, down to the fire box are tight.  The box was taken apart and there is continuity and all parts appear to be in working order.  It jumps from 100 to 50 to 100 mA despite wind.  There is a good, new ground installed.  The proper tangent supports and dead ends are used.  Now, according to the fire chief, the box used to work fine until the school got a new FA system this past year.  Again, though, all seems ok.  In addition, I put the box on a VOM and the box was sending out the right voltage when it was activated.  Any ideas?? :?

Bob K

When you trip the box, does it run idle one round and then attempt to transmit to ground?

Is the current fluctuation a local problem only or are they measuring this at the town's main fire alarm panel?  If it is systemwide then it sounds like a problem with the town's current supply.  If it is a local problem, then it sounds like a wiring problem with the connection to the box.  There is 50mA of current flowing somewhere that is not going through the box.  The 50mA of remaining current is probably not enough to hold the coil in the box.  I would suspect a splice in the municipal wiring that is not weather tight or has some other issue.  It could also be a fault in the municipal cable.  If this cable was installed when the box was installed, it would explain why the problems started when the new box was installed.

Are there any problems with other nearby boxes on the same circuit?

Matthew Mummert, York, Pa
mlmummert@suscom.net

[Boxcom]

Hi Matt!

     When you trip the box, its solid for all 4 rounds.

     The current fluctuation is locally at the box, itself.  All other boxes along the circuit and the readings at the Form 4 all read 100mA.  

     The box itself is not new.  Its been there for quite a while.  What is new is the FA system in the High School.  It was replaced around December or January.  The box is a local energy master box.  All connections and readings on the master box connections seem ok.  Maybe something in the drop or weatherhead?  I'll be looking at it again this weekend.  

Bob K

[mlmummert]

As for the auxiliary system, since it is local energy, the auxiliary circuit should be completely isolated electrically from the municipal circuit.  So any problem on the auxiliary circuit should have no effect on the box transmitting if it is tripped manually.

Matthew Mummert

[Boxcom]

I figured that.  Just checking the extremes....Kinda like looking for your car keys in the freezer when you've exhausted the obvious places. ; )   We'll get to the bottom of it.  I'll follow up after we work on it again.  Any other ideas still would be appreciated. : )

[Boxcom]

Ok, here's an update.  I checked and tested the C-Wire span from the box to the main circuit.  The wire is good with no shorts.  It think that there are two ground faults between  Fire HQ and the box just past this box.  I've started checking the circuit from Fire HQ and am working my way toward that box.  Hopefully I'll find the ground faults and will clear up the problem.   At least, it'll clear the ground faults. : )
If that doesn't solve it, then I'm not sure what the story is.

Bob K

[jbc]

Hello and help.

I have a Gamewell 3 fold Master Box that I had hooked up to a set-up at the Penna. Schuykill Historical Society and it worked perfect. When I hooked it up at home it to a Gamewell 10" chrome chain-rewind type gong some of the rounds "skip".
Sometimes the first round or two seems to double hit, then the next two rounds are fine. The box is number 438, and is set on fast rounds. What could be wrong?

How do you set the box for slower strikes and rounds?

And also- I have a Bliss Gamewell tape register that when it was hooked up to the box punched the code fine, but as soon as you wind it it keeps on rolling. It will roll until it is wound down even when no power is applied.

Any help?

Thanks.

[Boxcom]

To slow the box down, open up the box, remove the glass dome.  Behind the Automatic Ground Return (the thing that look like a black dot) is a rod that rocks up and down like a see-saw.   There should be weights on it.  Take a small screwdriver, unscrew it, and move the weight away from the middle.  The further out, you go, the slower the box taps out.  Let us know how you make out.

[jbc]

Thanks for the reply.
I am a total mechanical nightmare. I was afraid to try it as evrything I touch some how ends up worse off. That being said, I exchanged the mechanism with another one that was supposed to be on a slower time. It wasn't. And it only comes in 2 rounds.

Are there 2 round boxes or is there another adjustment?? This mechanism was supposed to have slower time. I do not know if there are weights on it. I have a diagram of the mechanical "exploded view" and it looks very complicated.

My tape register and excellsior gong were repaired by a man they call the alarm doctor, and he did an excellent job. He explained to me the center chain-pull rewind mechanism was prone to malfunctions. This gong still double hits. The Excellsior works perfect. I have it looped from power to converter, out-line from converter split with one side going to the 3-fold pull-box (master box), and the other outline going to a spliter. The other side of the pull-box goes to the chain-wind bell, to the tape register, to the Excellsior gong to the splitter to close the loop.

What do you think??

[fyr1]

Mount Vernon NY converted their boxes from 4 to 2 rounds when they had them.
So yes there are 2 round boxes.

[legeros]

I'm new to these things and recently acquired a Gamewell gong on eBay, pictured below with the bell removed. Can anyone assist me with a couple questions?

Nothing happened when I connected a 12v, 100mA power supply to the thing. Does it require 24v?

I connected the power supply to the points marked "A" and "B," which seem the only place to connect same. Am I missing something?

Um, which end is up?    

Thanks for any help, anyone!

mjl

[legeros]

Second question:

The spring/coil appears to be freely rotating around the center, or sort of.

So as the thing is wound, one end occasional snaps around (and snaps unsuspecting fingers!).

Is that how these things work?

mjl