YFD EMS Plan

[YARBFD10]

I think everyone knows that I like to get hypothetical on here.  So here's my next hypothetical situation...  YFD operated EMS.   :idea:

Some of you will probably send me an  :evil: telegram or something for even mentioning the thought.

But if YFD were to initiate an EMS operation, here's how I think it might go....

Station 1 would operate Rescue 1, staffed by 1 paramedic & 1 EMT.

Station 2 would operate Rescue 2, staffed by 1 paramedic & 1 EMT, and Engine 2 would run with a paramedic on board.

Station 3 would operate Rescue 3, staffed by 1 paramedic & 1 EMT, and Engine 3 would run with a paramedic on board.

Station 6 would operate Engine 6 with a paramedic on board, and have Rescue 1 or Rescue 7 provide transport.

Station 7 would operate Rescue 7, staffed by 1 paramedic & 1 EMT, and Engine 7 would run with a paramedic on board.

Station 9 would run Engine 9 with a paramedic on board, and have Station 2 transport with Rescue 2.  Once a new Station 9 is built, a Rescue 9 would be put in service.

Station 12 would run Engine 12 with a paramedic on board, and have Rescue 7 or Rescue 1 provide transport.

Station 15 would run Engine 15 with a paramedic on board, and have Rescue 3 transport.

SO, in total, 4 paramedic rescue ambulances would be inservice with 1 or 2 in reserve.  All Engine companies would be staffed with one paramedic, or at least an EMT on short days.  All engines would be equipped with Advanced Life Support equipment like Defibrillators, Intubation kits, drug boxes, & IV equipment.

Manning would have to be beefed up by 30 new hires, prefferably paramedic certified to save $ for the city.

If call volume is too much for the 4 rescue units to handle, another unit may need to be added at Station 1 & Station 3 (Rescue 11, Rescue 13).

I do not know what the city call volume is for medical runs, but if the city charged $550 per ALS call and $275 for a BLS call, I think the city would definately come out ahead.

Let me know what you guys think on this.  If you have any other information please post it!

 :idea:

I used the station map from our website.

[jme]

Well my friend... Youngstown does NOT run EMS! Judging by your last post you probably would not want to take the test.

[YARBFD10]

Hmmm

Working fire at least once a week, or my tummy hurts 10 times a day?

I'll take fire thanks.

I take it you did not read my quote at the bottom of every post?  :shock:

I was merely stating that a city that is always in financial crisis would benefit from billing for EMS services provided by FD.

 :idea:

[jme]

You do relize we are talking Youngstown? Besides the FD and PD residence, the rest of Youngstown is filled with poor people or old people. This is... for the most part. The poor people can not afford to pay their ambulamce bill and the old people have medicare or medicaid. Do you relize that medicaid and medicare only pay abou $200 of an ambulance trip. So much for $500! Also do you relize the current mayor when proposed with the idea of EMS stated that he would shut down a firetruck before an ambulance if the ambulances were not making money? :x

Ambulances don't belong in the firehouse!!!

[daysleeper47]

jme, you are stuck in the 1960's. This is the changing face of Fire-Rescue. It is the only viable way for a fire department to turn a buck. Face it, the old fish fry doesn't get the job done any more. If they can pay $200, then pay $200 instead of $500. Take what you can get. There is nothing wrong with junior firefighters signing up to run EMS. Many YFD firefighter/medic/EMT's did it in the 1980's. Am I advocating putting guys with 20 years on the job in the back of a bus? Hell no, but new hires should expect that the new face of the fire service involves EMS.

[daysleeper47]

BTW: you really are messed up to think that the only people who live in Youngstown are either old or poor. That makes it quite clear that you have no idea about this city and clearly don't live in it.

[yfdgricker]

Let's try not to let this topic get too out of hand. k? It's a good debate and a topic I wouldn't be surprised to see happen someday!

I wouldn't mind seeing a couple department ambulances running around the city again. I'm sure if the EMS aspect was managed correctly it could be self supportive.

Unfortunitly, we've already seen Girard close up their EMS unit.

Add to the mix the politicians who want a cut in everything.

A question for all of you, which departments run successful EMS units and are they small departments or large departments? What is the income base (ie poor/blue collar/wealthy). I don't follow EMS in the various FD's much so your thought/information on the subject would be most welcome. Would Youngstown get enough income from the majority of the population it would serve.

Also just an observation from one who lives on the Southside Youngstown resident's claim to have no money (and if you look at their houses, you would agree that they are poor) however if you look at their cars, man, some people's cars cost more than my house All of their money goes not into their property but into their roadies. I passed a Cadillac Escalade detailed with six LCD tv's in it driving around in the city this weekend! Dang! Maybe we should revamp the tax collection proceedure from just property taxes to include property and cost of vehicle tax?

BTW... I split this topic and merged the EMS posts with the YFD EMS Plan post since they were more along the same topics.

[dcmkris]

Of course I can't speak for the NE part of Ohio but I'll lend my experiences here in SE MI & NW Ohio.  

In Ohio I can say that the Toledo FD runs 7 Advanced Life Support Engines.  I belive all Toledo FF's are EMT's around 500 members and about 100+ are Paramedics who staff Lucas County Life Squads.  The units are provided by Lucas County.  

IN SE MI most FD's run their own medic units.  Detroit FD runs Ambulances but they are seprate from the FF ops.  They have tried to make new FF recruits be EMS certified but the union has a pretty good strangle hold on making this ever happen.

Most of the Dept's I have dealings with are EMS first responders including voulenteers.  I think off the top of my head that 90% are medic units run by the FD.  98% of the Dept's FF's run on medic calls and are Emt certified.  Several cities are running 1st responder with a private ambulance co. doing the transporting.  I would guess that this is done by fewer than 20% of Metro Detroit dept's.

I've been away recently the show season is fairly busy between Feb & April.  If anyone has questions please go ahead and ask as I should be back checking in several times a day now.

Kris

[jim trk 1]

Hey Guys
  We do all of our own EMS here in Columbus, along with billing.  I think Youngstown would have to do a first responder program with ems, or merge with Rural Metro.  If YFD did put a squad or medic in service, it would be fairly busy. Not sure if the ff's would want to be EMS trained or not.  It would create an increase in calls, and a second medic would have to be placed in service, or a BLS engine.  Just depends on what the city wants to do.  I like fighting fires, but EMS is now the main call for most dept's.  Just have to wait and see what the future holds for YFD

[doomonyou]

Here in Huntington WV where I work the city used to run EMS. The city and county merged back in the late 80's. With the county taking over EMS. Let me say first that I am a Paramedic and I don't want the FD to get back into EMS. I still play medic for extra money and don't want to have to do it full time again. I have the upmost respect for the depts that are combo. I dispise getting up  0 dark thirty unless it is a true emergency and lets face it most EMS calls are not. Our county does a great job at running EMS and  that is the way it should stay. Yes they make big money and they get to keep most of it. The thing with EMS revenues is that yes, it  should go to the FD. But, the majority of the time it goes into the local governments general funds for all to spend. Think about it what other city service makes money besides taxes? You got it EMS! That $200.00 adds up quickly. So your dept should really think this one out because your calls will double or even triple. And even the old timers will get caught up in running EMS calls. Charleston our Capital took over EMS a few years ago. The city EMS was a 3rd service. Long story short, it has been a headache since. The unions have got invloved, lawsuits flew and worse the state almost shut down the EMS because they "lost" thier training records! :roll: When they were 3rd service they ran great. This was not the FDs. idea either, it was the city fathers. So really think this one out.

[YARBFD10]

As for NE Ohio, I know that pretty much every department runs a paramedic rescue service now.  Exceptions to this are Y'Town, Warren, Elyria, Lorain, & Ashtabula City.

Ashtabula City does run however, a paramedic engine.

I honestly think that if Youngstown were to have at least 4 medic squads and have every engine medic equipped, they could make it work.

Euclid for example, is the about the size of Warren population wise.  Euclid runs 3 paramedic squads, 2 advanced life support engines, & 2 advanced life support ladders.  They ended up pulling in just under $1 Million in ambulance fees in 2003.  If anyone knows Euclid, it is a blue collar city with a lot of poverty spilling over from East Cleveland & Cleveland.

Hmmm, how do all those people pay their ambulance bill???   :shock:

Health insurance never pays the full amount anyway, but we take what we can get.  $200 is better than $0.

If you are from NE Ohio then you also know that in order to take any worth while civil service test that you have to be a state certified paramedic or at least be in paramedic school.  Those departments that don't require you to be a paramedic and don't run EMS will most likely never hire you, or end up laying you off.  In NE Ohio all you have to do is drive around to the different departments to see what EMS has done for them.  Drive past Warren Station 1 and see a 1973 aerial ladder in frontline status.  Drive past Lakewood Station 1 and see nothing older than 2000.

Take Cleveland now...  Two separate entities.  Fire & EMS.  Lets do some retard math now.  Fire Department brings in NO revenue.  EMS charges for services.  Who got laid off??   :shock:

Girard is one of those exceptions.  Girard was already in financial crisis, already in a fiscal emergency.  There was nothing they could do there.

I know that this is a heated topic, but firefighter/medics complain about EMS mainly because their department has a jacked up system of not rotating them off the squads enough.  In 5 to 10 years almost all NE Ohio departments will be staffed with nothing but firefighter/paramedics.

Just keep an open mind!

[yfd4]

ryan
youre a nice little dude
keep up your excellent posts
 your old friend....

[YARBFD10]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!

 

[yfd4]

wish it were that easy
warren and youngstwon are NOT burbs of cleveland they are the deep rust belt and are poverty stricken
the privates in warren have a political foot in the door and oppose fd/ems for reasons of profit plain and simple
not likely warren and youngstown would make  as much $ as cleveland affluent burbs but its still worth trying anyway

[YARBFD10]

You would be suprised how much they could make.  How does Howland do it?  How does Cortland do it?  How does Liberty do it?  How does Champion do it?

EMS is a service that needs to be provided, and who better to do it than the FD.