PGFD BR 36 (Baden) burns in brush fire

[brucobuff]

This Maryland/Young classic; 1964 Ford F-600/Young 250/200 suffered much damage, unknown if repairable.
1993 photo by WW Jenkins
Co. 36 photo of damaged rig

[Engine33Truck]

When did this happen?

[MATT3045]

Was this in the Laurel fire on 2/19?

[brucobuff]

Statter911.com

[Engine33Truck]

I don't see the article?

[boardmansteve]

Statter911.com

I can't find it, either; please post a direct link to the article.

[daysleeper47]

Yes, it was the Laurel fires on 2/19. Statter has some info here: http://statter911.com/2011/02/19/high-winds-slam-md-dc-va-prince-georges-county-hit-hard-with-numerous-fires/ and here: http://statter911.com/2011/02/20/one-of-the-busiest-days-in-pgfd-history-run-down-of-fires-mutual-aid-from-far-wide-new-arrival-video-from-early-am-college-park-house-fires/

[MATT3045]

Here are some more pictures from Doug Walton

http://dswpix.net/2011/02/21/large-brush-fire-in-laurel/

[brucobuff]

To correct, BR 36 was burned at the Chalk Point RD. brush fire, this was in Baden's 1st due in far southeastern PG County. This is roughly 50 miles from the fire incidents in Laurel, and was 1 of 7 major events in PG on Saturday.

[johnmocha]

Was this rig operating at the fire?  Seems to be pretty old to still be in service, particularly in a metro area.

[brucobuff]

Was this rig operating at the fire?  Seems to be pretty old to still be in service, particularly in a metro area.

???Wasn't my posts;(#1 and #8) clear to you?
1. This was a in-service unit, I assure you it was not parked in a field so the fire could burn up to it... or are you suggesting otherwise?
2. Yes it's old, it is in service  because Baden's brush jeep wrecked and burned at another incident 2 years ago...
3. Baden is not in the "Metro" area, they are a very rural vfd in Prince Georges Co.
4. Do you have an idea about how old fire trucks should be , especially in a "Metro" area???
This is the 1st time that the credibility of any of my photos/info have been questioned and I guarantee it will be the last time.
Good day,
Warren Jenkins

[johnmocha]

Hi Warren,
I wasn't questioning the validity of your photos it was just surprising to me that there was a 47 year old piece of apparatus that was still in service in PG County.  I've been to PG County several times and would have thought that most of it was pretty well built out by now.  Frankly I'm surprised that there are still rural parts that required a dedicated brush truck.  Additionally I'm not familiar with how various regulations deal with in service brush trucks, particularly open cabs with windshields for those on the back step. My guess is when apparatus gets over 40 years its probably time to think about retiring it - even in times of tight budgets.   My company in Middlesex County, New Jersey had a '57 International brush truck that we ran until the late 90s.   Parts were a huge problem and frankly the truck was worn out despite our best efforts.  Sorry but I did have a bit of  trouble following your posts.  Thanks for posting the photos. 
All the best,
John

[Twig]

Looking at the pics of Brush 36, I sure hope that it can be
repaired. Other than the tires lost on that side The rest looks
like heat/smoke damage to the paint and metal, but no real
structural damage to the piece.

Warren;

I don't think the poster was questioning your integrity or
knowledge, remember, folks here are from "all over" and all
don't know about PG per se.  It does seem like a legit question
about the age and PG does "market" itself  as a "metro" FD.

They ARE "urban" enough to have obviously gotten rusty in
their rural procedures. Remember, the paid men are taught at
an Academy and they are only given the basics, plus they
are rotated around a lot so they don't always get exposure
to that type of firefighting.

Yes, even the "southside" has become "suburbia" and even
"urban" in most places!  Big changes since the 1960s! Almost
daily the once farm-fields are being graded over for housing
developments and shopping centers!  That's one reason why
PG istelf no longer rostgers ANY brush units! Only the volunteer
FDs (and only a FEW of them!) have any dedicated brush units.
And with the transient nature of even the volunteer membership
(from colleges and other places out of the state) even they
are not familiar with rural ops in PG so losses like this are now
commonplace where "back in the day" it was almost unheard of.

Keep the great pics coming! They ARE appreciated! And THIS
is a top notch site! Just saying!

Remember...The ONLY stupid question is the one not asked!
A question is a request for knowledge and information!

This comes from an old hand who was a member of a VFD right
on the MD/DC line and back in the 60s and early 70s WE had
INDIAN CANS on the ENGINES!  And WE ran brush fires along
the Northeast Branch of the Anacostia River! Been there, done that!

[Engine33Truck]

To further comment of Twig's post, the rig does look repairable.  Even though I haven't seen the rig in person, it looks to me like there's no warpage to the metal.  There may be some wheel well damage from the burning tires, but nothing irrepairable.  Lucky them, the fuel tank didn't go up! 


And to comment on PG fire departments having brush trucks,  I've been to PG County twice in my life, and oh the changes!  When I was little and went through there on a road trip, it was fairly rural.   I went through the same locations and there were housing developments everywhere.   PG County is getting very urbanised, but there still are areas, as Twig said, that still have use of brush trucks.

To all, remember, just because a brush truck is called a "brush truck", that doesn't mean that's it's only use.  Brush trucks can be designed with only one purpose (like Keyser's) or can be a jack of all trades.

[brucobuff]

John, I will try to give more info with my posts, I felt like you were questioning if this rig actually responded and had burned for some other reason.
Twig, thanks for your input and the history lesson. I hope you got the hi-res pic I sent you.
So, should I do a thread on old PGFD brush trucks? 

[Twig]

Warren;

1. Yes, I got the photos! Thank you!

2. Yes, It might be a great idea for even guys IN PG who don't
go back that far!  Heck! I can remember when Kentland was
2nd due on CALVERT COUNTY boxes! (And they only had the
one station! And It didn't have an addition!)

3. As for "Brush 36" It was originally bought and constructed
as a regular engine and became a "Brush Unit" later in life. PG
now holds to the NFPA standard about engines only having a
15 year life span whereas brush units are indefinite. It was a
good and economical move to get more use out of an older
piece and brush calls even there are not as frequent anymore.

"Back in the Day" many PG companies had dedicated brush units
and even carried rakes and Indian Cans in their engines. Now
that they feel that they are "downtown" such things have gone
by the wayside. Some engines even no longer carry hard sleeves
and I almost defy you to find drivers (paid or volunteer) who can
draft!

Also "Back in the Day" brush units were all-wheel drive units such
as Jeeps, surplus weapons carriers and pickups. They were made
to operate in hostile environments off-road. Nowdays "brush units"
are shiny, chromed out, overloaded commercial vehicles that are
really not suited for off-road work. Still much better to get/use a
surplus military-grade vehicle or one designed for forestry work that
doesn't have a lot of fancy stuff.  And the good old Jeep is STILL
a valuable tool for maneuvering in tight spaces in the woods and
getting where most vehicles can't if it is operated by a properly trained
driver/operator. The others are just too big and heavy.

Many changes have taken place in PG and not all are for the good.
Drive through Southern Maryland or Southern PG and it looks like
suburbia now, not very rural.

Progress......... (sigh)

[Engine33Truck]

So, should I do a thread on old PGFD brush trucks? 

I'd sure love to see a thread about that!! 

[SIGNAL30]

UPDATE - BR-36 has been removed from service, but is being retained by the Company as a parade rig.

An in-house restoration is slowly getting underway, new tires have been put on, and I'm told an old Ford school bus of the same vintage is being used as a parts source.

This info was given to me by a BCFD member who is a member at Baden.